Lake Tanganyika Species • My Tropheus Duboisi are dying how can I stop it?

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My Tropheus Duboisi are dying how can I stop it?

Postby Jakiro » Tue May 01, 2012 4:06 am

Yesterday I did a water change, about 40% new water, treated with Prime.

Everything as I normally do and have done for the aprox 12 months I've had them.

I also cleaned my filter (sunsun HW302 canister - no UV) which was well filled with gunk, I rinsed all the wool and bio balls with water out of the aquarium no chlorinated water and put a new piece of wool in (leaving 3 of the original wool bits still in there as it has space for 4). My substrate is Marble chips and some coral and coral sand.

In the process of refilling the tank the temperature dropped to about 23 degrees as it usually does then on the way back up peaked at 30 degrees as I had put in an additional heater while getting the heat back to normal (only for a couple hours).

This morning I woke up and my Duboisi were covered in white stuff, I thought they had just been mating due to the drop in temp and was pleased at how many must be females because they had what I thought was sperm (I looked closely and it really looks like sperm) all over them where the males had missed their mouths. A few were fine no white stuff at all. Then this afternoon I got home and 8 of my 20 were dead! Lots of them had lost alot of colour and were very pale.

So about 15mins ago I got an internal Ehiem 2012 from my demasoni tank and put it in the Duboisi/Frontosa tank thinking maybe the filter was cleaned to thoroughly and they needed a well functioning bio filter to stabilize, I also added another 10ml of prime (dosage for 400l, my tank is about 450l) Im not 100% sure but they seem to be reacting positively to these change.

What is wrong and what should I do? I can go to Hollywood fish farm in the morning when they open, they have most treatments, I want to save the rest!

The Frontosa and afew tiny electric yellows are fine.

Here are some pictures

http://i1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh5 ... G_0267.jpg

http://s1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh5 ... g&newest=1
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http://s1249.photobucket.com/albums/hh5 ... g&newest=1

Thanks
Jakiro
 
Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 3:44 am
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Postby Jakiro » Tue May 01, 2012 6:44 am

So at this point before the shop opens in the morning (in NZ it is 11pm) I can; add more Prime, increase the temperature, add more coral rock, or move the fish to the Demasoni tank. At the moment I'm reluctant to do any of these as I'm afraid they will do more harm than good.
Jakiro
 
Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 3:44 am
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Postby Morpheen » Tue May 01, 2012 10:20 am

I havent a clue what is covering your dubs in that white film. It's almost as though their slime coat is "gelling" up on them. I wouldn't move them to another tank though as that might spread whatever is wrong with them to your Demasoni's, as well as further stressing out your dubs. Perhaps try adding salt and raising the temperature? Hopefully someone more informed will chime in here and help you out. Good luck to you
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Postby 24Tropheus » Tue May 01, 2012 2:17 pm

OMG the ones in the photos look aweful (prob far to far gone for anything I know of to save). I dunno had tank crashes myselfand would not wish em on anyone.

My best guess is something in this batch of tap water. A big does of chlorine or chloramines or other addition. Cleaning your filters at this time would not help as the "gunk" searves to soak up some of them.

To be honest I would do nothing (regarding treatments salt and temp raises) untill you know what the problem is.
Pooring salt or meds in the water or changing the temperature prob will not help. Seachem Prime at the dose to nutralise ammonia/nitrites may help but you need to test to know the caurse of this horrid problem. And as yet I do not.
Do a full water test (or take a sample to a good LFS shop, here they offer this service) and maybe we can sort out what went wrong.

All the best James
Tanks 180, empty revamping 100,65,60g Tropheus/tang communities 75g revamping. 29gx3 shelly communities, 29g Trigs breeding. 20gx2 shelly tanks. BCA member 207. Try it you might like it.
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Postby 24Tropheus » Tue May 01, 2012 4:01 pm

Personaly I do not like to drop the temp to stimualate breeding. I think it makes em susseptable to all sorts of diseases and problems. I find they breed fine without a temp drop when they are good and ready.

All the best James
Tanks 180, empty revamping 100,65,60g Tropheus/tang communities 75g revamping. 29gx3 shelly communities, 29g Trigs breeding. 20gx2 shelly tanks. BCA member 207. Try it you might like it.
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Two left

Postby Jakiro » Tue May 01, 2012 5:00 pm

Well this morning I woke up and there are only two of my colony of 20 left.

Yes I think I would agrees with you that they have had a high dose of one of those things in the water and by removing alot of my bio filtration from the tank when I cleaned my main filter I didnt allow it to be absorbed as it usually is. They did seem to get slightly better with the addition of the internal Eheim from my other tank, this filter has not been cleaned out in a while.

I will ring my LFS when they open to ask if they do water tests, otherwise I will have to buy a master test kit to find out.

Thanks
Jakiro
 
Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 3:44 am
Location: Auckland City

Postby JimA » Tue May 01, 2012 5:45 pm

Not many diseases that would kill that quick I don't think, unless they have had it awhile and you never knew. Not likely??

Had to be something in the water.. If the other two make woould be a miracle. Id probably strip the tank down and start over but you need to find out what caused it before going forward.

You on a well or city type water? I don't know about NZ but here the city call add all kinds of stuff to the water. And fwiw I try and keep temos as close to what they are in as possible. Changing can just stress them out.

Bummer man!!
The only difficult day was yesterday.
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Postby eklikewhoa » Tue May 01, 2012 6:37 pm

If you are on city water, with the seasons changing the city might be increasing the use of chloramines.

The pictures you posted look like the slime coat is being stripped off the fish.

I would test your tap water for ammonia which is how chloramines would show up on a test kit. I've dropped temps upwards to 10deg F over the period of time it takes to refill my tanks with no problems but the slime coat pictured looks like heavy chlorine/chloramine shock.

If you have the means I suggest running your water through a carbon filter prior or double-triple dosing prime or what I like to use, amquel+plus before refilling. Another option is to age water with either the two de-chlorinators.
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Auckland city water

Postby Jakiro » Tue May 01, 2012 11:13 pm

Yea our water comes from a river that flows through alot of farmland so has heaps of runoff in it. They treat it pretty heavily so that's what it will be, a possible increase in chloramines coupled with my cleaning out alot of bio filtration from my filter.

They are all dead except for one now and it looks like it wont last long.

Thanks for your help, in future I will be much more careful with my water changes
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Postby RayQ » Tue May 01, 2012 11:28 pm

Was it just the Trophs that died? Sorry for the loss of the colony by the way. I believe that if it was chloramine, there would have been signs of heavy breathing as it would have affected their gills first. I personally don't think that the 7 degree drop in temperature was good for them, they come from a very stable body of water, big changes like that cause stress, and stress leads to a weak immune system IMHO. I can't say what the issue is, but, it doesn't look good.
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Postby Jakiro » Tue May 01, 2012 11:57 pm

Yes it was only the Tropheus affected, the Frontosa and electric yellows showed no signs of discomfort.

The tank usually sits at 26-27 degrees C. When adding water it dropped to 23 C then in my haste to raise it I added another heater and overnight this raised it to 30 C then I removed the extra heater and let the temp drop back to its normal 27 C.

So there was more like a 4 degrees C drop in their temp and as this was reasonably sudden, around an hour, this could have caused enough stress to lower their immunity. Although many websites state their temp range as 23-27°C so it is not outside this range..
Jakiro
 
Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 3:44 am
Location: Auckland City

Postby nudge » Wed May 02, 2012 2:01 am

Dude sorry to hear about ya colony dying on you, i know how pricey these fish are in NZ. If you want to start a new colony i know a guy up here (whangarei) who breeds pemba and dubs. Let me know if you are interested
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