Lake Tanganyika Species • Xenotilapia rotundiventralis

Discussion regarding only Lake Tanganyika species.

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Postby Creepy85 » Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:07 pm

Vamze wrote:
Creepy85 wrote:...in german science...




The species was first described in 1997 by Takahashi, Yanagisawa and Nakaya.

Later, in a revision of the genus Xenotilapia, (BY THE SAME GUY WHO DISCOVERED IT IN THE FIRST PLACE) Takahashi, T. 2003: Systematics of Tanganyikan cichlid fishes (Teleostei: Perciformes). Ichthyological Research It was described as Xenotilapia Rotundiventralis.


Here are some links if you want to read the articles youself.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/k5qd8w1a4dv7nyd4/

http://www.itis.gov/servlet/SingleRpt/S ... lue=649579



This Discription of fishes is ok, but the Name is Nonses....look to the genus metriaclima or maylandia....
Every scientist called the fish like he did...

try to ask michael näf in our forum tanganjika-forum.de
Greetings from Germany

Simon

http://www.einrichtungsbeispiele.de/ind ... d=0&uid=91 <-- My O. ventralis Tank.

http://www.youtube.com/user/SimonV0585?feature=mhum my youtube channel.
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Postby 24Tropheus » Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:45 pm

Nice photos, interesting cichlid.

On the genus. We do not have to accept Takahashi's move of the species from Microdontochromis to Xenotilapia (2003) if we think it was done in error or the reasons for the move not good. It is far from a typical Xenotilapia. But I do not know enough about it to give an opinion one way or another. Nor willing to pay to read the papers. :oops:
Not sure if there is a consensus on this.
Fishbase go with Xenotilapia.
But CRC still go with Microdontochromis http://www.cichlidae.com/gallery/genus. ... 64&lang=en
There are no rules governing generic assignments, only opinions. :thumb:

For sure there is a lot written about it as Microdontochromis, (its name from 1997 to at least 2003) so well worth including that on any search for info.

All the best James
Tanks 180, empty revamping 100,65,60g Tropheus/tang communities 75g revamping. 29gx3 shelly communities, 29g Trigs breeding. 20gx2 shelly tanks. BCA member 207. Try it you might like it.
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Postby Multi » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:15 am

I also call this species for Microdontochromis, but i thought that i would name this thread Xenotilapia rotundiventralis, because I think that is the right name now. But most people still call it Microdontochromis, and it is also under that name you will find most information on the internet. :)
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Postby Vamze » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:41 am

24Tropheus wrote:Nice photos, interesting cichlid.

On the genus. We do not have to accept Takahashi's move of the species from Microdontochromis to Xenotilapia (2003) if we think it was done in error or the reasons for the move not good. It is far from a typical Xenotilapia. But I do not know enough about it to give an opinion one way or another. Nor willing to pay to read the papers. :oops:
Not sure if there is a consensus on this.
Fishbase go with Xenotilapia.
But CRC still go with Microdontochromis http://www.cichlidae.com/gallery/genus. ... 64&lang=en
There are no rules governing generic assignments, only opinions. :thumb:

For sure there is a lot written about it as Microdontochromis, (its name from 1997 to at least 2003) so well worth including that on any search for info.

All the best James


While this is certainly true, we must also keep in mind that these are peer-reviewed science papers, that are widely regarded as facts.

You can also have your own opinion on gravity, but that doesn't change the fact that if you jump off a bridge, it is very real.

Now, while I do go to university, I don't study biology, so I doubt I will be able to make any claims or conclusions whether Takashi is correct or not. I will, however, not disregard his paper as "fiction" as some people seem to be doing.
720 liter Tanganyika tank.
60 liter Apistogramma Cacatuoides (one pair) tank.
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Postby 24Tropheus » Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:44 pm

Peer review is happening as it usualy does in Zoology, mainly after publication.
Peer review before publication is not to see if it should be accepted as fact but to ensure it is good enough to be published.
I guess as many are not accepting the name change, they do not agree with it rather than are ignoring it.
I did/do study Zoology and am afade name changes are not fixed in stone from one publication to the next but usage after the paper tends to be the deciding factor.
That and later genus reviews.

All the best James
Tanks 180, empty revamping 100,65,60g Tropheus/tang communities 75g revamping. 29gx3 shelly communities, 29g Trigs breeding. 20gx2 shelly tanks. BCA member 207. Try it you might like it.
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Postby Cajen » Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:19 pm

Multi wgat an outstanding tank ans aquascape you have! Absolutely FAB!
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Postby triscuit » Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:34 pm

24Tropheus wrote:Peer review before publication is not to see if it should be accepted as fact but to ensure it is good enough to be published.



:roll: "Good enough to be published" is based on sufficient evidence, sound scientific method, research rational and yes- hypothesis testing concluding with factual results. To call this a generic assignment makes me wonder what you'd call a specific assignment. :D
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Postby 24Tropheus » Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:21 pm

triscuit wrote:
24Tropheus wrote:Peer review before publication is not to see if it should be accepted as fact but to ensure it is good enough to be published.



:roll: "Good enough to be published" is based on sufficient evidence, sound scientific method, research rational and yes- hypothesis testing concluding with factual results. To call this a generic assignment makes me wonder what you'd call a specific assignment. :D


Generic as in genus. Specific as in species. (not hard :wink: )

Interestingly the paper seems to contain no hypothesis testing, just an assertion, that many seem to disagree with.

Proof by assertion, an assertion as opposed to an argument............. is not acceptable.

I for sure dunno if the guys in charge of this forum or CRC or the Scientific community will eventualy follow fishbase and accept this generic re assignment. But given the time lag, prob not?

All the best James
Tanks 180, empty revamping 100,65,60g Tropheus/tang communities 75g revamping. 29gx3 shelly communities, 29g Trigs breeding. 20gx2 shelly tanks. BCA member 207. Try it you might like it.
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Postby Multi » Tue May 01, 2012 6:51 am

It still works very well with the fish. I lost a fish a few days after they had arrived, but there were also two of fish, which in the beginning seemed quite stressful, so I think it was one of those who died...

But then I think, I also lost one last Saturday after waterchange! But I was so careful, so I don't understand how that could happen? Is there anyone who have any advice for how to avoid the accident happening again?
I placed a water hose in the top of the aquarium, in one of the corners, and the other end of the hose in a sink. So I didn't removed the hose at all, before I had taken 1/4 of the aquarium water out, so I can't have stressed the fish that way.
I filled up with water at about the same temperature as in the aquarium, usually I fill my aquariums with a little bit colder water, but i wouldn't risk to give them "cold shock".
None of the fish seemed stressed under the waterchange or after, therefore it suprised me a little bit that one of the fish died... All of the fish seems fresh.
If anyone could share their own experiences to avoid this, it would be really nice.
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Postby 24Tropheus » Tue May 01, 2012 12:11 pm

With delicate WC I always pre age my water change water for 24 hours, airating it and warming it throughout. Then check its pH and KH and GH matches the tank water. Then treat with baking soda and or epsom salts if needed, then use a good chloramine remover like Seachem Prime or Safe (Just in case the water supplier has added chloramines to combat a bacterial surge) .(Once did a big water change and wiped out half my WC stock before doing this). Kind of suprised they were so delicate as well though. It may be something else making them delicate like some sort of pathogen imported with/in them or one that just has not made it very well into captivity (shipping further weekening a week or infected fish).

Any trace of ammonia or nitrite in a new tank can be very bad for WC being so stressed already by the move into captivity and recent shipping. Seachem prime or safe will help detoxify these but not remove them. Carbon filtration is about the only thing that does that and that will starve your biological filters. Its kind of all or nothing with chemical filtration. Do it well and rely on it or stay away from it.

But saying all that. Some WC do not make it, whatever I try.

All the best James
Tanks 180, empty revamping 100,65,60g Tropheus/tang communities 75g revamping. 29gx3 shelly communities, 29g Trigs breeding. 20gx2 shelly tanks. BCA member 207. Try it you might like it.
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Postby Multi » Tue May 01, 2012 1:55 pm

Thankyou for your answer!
I once checked our water parameters in the water from the sink, and they were pretty much the same as in the aquarium. Especially if I water change with warm water, I am very aware with that. But we have just got a new sink, a whole new kitchen in the basement actually, so I don't know if it may have changed the water parameters or something ... I'll check that before the next water change!
But maybe I just was unlucky. As I wrote, there was two fish in the start, which was more stressed than the others, and now I have lost two fish.
I just hope I don't loose more than that in the near future. :)
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Re: Xenotilapia rotundiventralis

Postby Multi » Sat May 12, 2012 5:41 am

Some new pictures. :)

Image

Image

Image
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Re: Xenotilapia rotundiventralis

Postby Multi » Tue May 15, 2012 9:23 am

I just found one of the missing fish. Yes, that is good news, but not in this way!
Because the fish is behind the background in the aquarium ... >:-(
This is the last time I put a background in a aquarium! I've tried this before in my other Tanganyika aquarium, in exactly the same way: water change, and one of the fish jumps, and ends behind the background. Arh!
But I know that is the way the fish ended up there; under the last waterchange. Because before I putted in in the aquarium, I checked the background several times for holes, where the fish maybe could swim through, I found one, and closed it very carefully with aquarium-silicone. I glued the background to the flamingo ind the bound of the aquarium, and I glued it in the sides. That is so annoying loosing a fish that way!
Is there anyone who have any ideas for catching it up, and put it over to the rest of the fish?

Well, then I have 19 fish...

But I also have some good news: I'm pretty sure about, that one of the fish is holding babies! It swims with a closed mouth, but sometimes it is chewing / turns the eggs around, and you can see them. It is also quite visible on the fish. So that is very exciting, and if I am right, and it really holds eggs, then it's been fast, because I have only had the fish for just under one month now. I received them on 17/04!
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Re: Xenotilapia rotundiventralis

Postby Cajen » Thu May 17, 2012 11:35 pm

Really kool pics, nice fish... Abso love your tank.
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Re: Xenotilapia rotundiventralis

Postby Multi » Fri May 18, 2012 6:01 am

Thankyou, Cajen. :)
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