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Calling all sump builders

20K views 46 replies 10 participants last post by  iwade4fish 
#1 ·
Along with the stand im working on I am planning on building a sump system for it. I really want to have the best of all worlds. *** heard arguments for and against wet/dry, refugium, etc. Most of it has been the same ol' Bio-anything is a nitrate factory, and refugiums are overkill for freshwater. I agree with some of it but each have their merits so I thought to myself...

WHY NOT HAVE BOTH?

So here are the rendered fruits of my rambling mind. This is setup in a 29 gallon tank. Inlet goes through two filter socks then to the side over filter floss and through a perforated tray over bio media, out through the bottom and up and over to the refugium then over to the pump housing.

Do you think this would actually be worth doing or am I going too far?

If you have any design ideas or suggestions send them this way.

Here are a couple angles up my sketchup model.

(Disclaimer: My design has a few ideas that I stole from the aqueon proflex sumps. Im not playing brand favorites or anything but i just think the thing looks darn nice!)





On a side note: Is a 29 gallon sump going to be enough for a 90 or 110 gallon tank? Or should i go for a 38 gallon?
 
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#2 ·
That size sump is fine, but you'll have to watch evaporation. I'd add an auto topoff to anything that small. Going with a 38 is only going to add a few gallons to the system, and may just make it harder to work in the sump. But, if space allows, it's usually a good idea to go with the bigger sump sizes.

Keep in mnd that filter socks often need frequent cleaning. Have you allowed bypass for if/when they clog and limit flow? In other words, where will the water go when it can't flow fast enough through the filter socks? Just keeping an eye on it is a risky plan. Better that it flow to a different chamber of the sump than your floor.

Otherwise, looks fine to me.
 
#3 ·
prov356 said:
That size sump is fine, but you'll have to watch evaporation. I'd add an auto topoff to anything that small. Going with a 38 is only going to add a few gallons to the system, and may just make it harder to work in the sump. But, if space allows, it's usually a good idea to go with the bigger sump sizes.

Keep in mnd that filter socks often need frequent cleaning. Have you allowed bypass for if/when they clog and limit flow? In other words, where will the water go when it can't flow fast enough through the filter socks? Just keeping an eye on it is a risky plan. Better that it flow to a different chamber of the sump than your floor.

Otherwise, looks fine to me.
Im considering going and building my own acrylic sump. Then i can customize the size to fit under my stand. My tank is only 48 wide so with the bracing inside i have limited space. But it is 36 inches tall so ill have plenty of room above it to work. I dont know how I would get an auto top off in such a small space.

This is going in my office and the wife would not take kindly to having anything showing outside the stand.
 
#4 ·
I built my own acrylic sump for same reasons.

You can run a line to a water source for the auto topoff, just be sure to add some type of inline filter that'd deal with chloramine/chlorine removal. If that's more than you want to get into, then just you'll just need to keep an eye on the water level.
 
#5 ·
prov356 said:
I built my own acrylic sump for same reasons.

You can run a line to a water source for the auto topoff, just be sure to add some type of inline filter that'd deal with chloramine/chlorine removal. If that's more than you want to get into, then just you'll just need to keep an eye on the water level.
With this being in my office there is no water line anywhere near. Good thing i work from home and the tank is just to my left. Its a great source of relaxation during those crazy days.
 
#6 ·
prov356 said:
I built my own acrylic sump for same reasons.

You can run a line to a water source for the auto topoff, just be sure to add some type of inline filter that'd deal with chloramine/chlorine removal. If that's more than you want to get into, then just you'll just need to keep an eye on the water level.
Hey Prov356. You couldnt post a pic of your sump could you?
 
#7 ·
Hey Prov356. You couldnt post a pic of your sump could you?
This was the first one that I built. It's been running almost 5 years now, no problems. I initially
had the removable dividers under the light for plants, but wasn't worth the trouble, so don't use
them any more. I just open the drain on the sump to do water changes.





I built four of these about two years ago for the fish room. Modified the initial design just a bit.
Working out the max size for the space always takes a lot of time. That's why the one pic
shows a mock up. I was seeing how low I could set the first row of tanks. For these, I switch
the two valves to drain the sump.







 
#10 ·
inurocker said:
Prov356 Very nice work. Did you ever plant the refugium on the one in first pic?
I tried some plants that didn't need to be rooted like hornwort and then an 'onion' plant I think it was called. I could never get plants to do well in that system. They don't do well in any of my sump systems, as a matter of fact. They grow like weeds in the tanks with sponge filters.

If the objective is to keep nitrates down, then I found that I can do that just fine by keeping organics low and staying on a regular water change schedule.
 
#11 ·


Essentially couldn't you use the proflex layout for this already? I mean the chamber where the filter socks are you could use as a refugium right? or does that need to be after the wet/dry portion.

I suppose too that you'd want it open above and lighted... hmmm then in that case you're design makes more sense.

I too have a wet/dry and it's really loud, I've been seriously considering the proflex for it's design..
 
#12 ·
Each of prov's sumps looks to have a feature that imho is one of the most important when building your own sump, yet lacking from both the OP's concept drawings and the photo from lexi :

An easily accessed/maintained/replaced mechanical prefilter pad. That pad can catch most of the incoming debris, keep it out of your bio media, yet be very easy to replace/clean. By removing the debris before it decays, you can reduce the nitrate buildup in your system. I really like what looks like a little access door (drawer?) on prov's assorted sumps where that pad lives.

-Rick (the armchair aquarist, who's sump setup exists only on paper so far, so keep that grain of salt handy)
 
#13 ·
Rick_Lindsey said:
Each of prov's sumps looks to have a feature that imho is one of the most important when building your own sump, yet lacking from both the OP's concept drawings and the photo from lexi :

An easily accessed/maintained/replaced mechanical prefilter pad. That pad can catch most of the incoming debris, keep it out of your bio media, yet be very easy to replace/clean. By removing the debris before it decays, you can reduce the nitrate buildup in your system. I really like what looks like a little access door (drawer?) on prov's assorted sumps where that pad lives.

-Rick (the armchair aquarist, who's sump setup exists only on paper so far, so keep that grain of salt handy)
Rick. The sump would have a prefilter pad above the bio media in the tray shown. The proflex also has then when set up as a wet/dry. (in fact my wet/dry section is basically the same as theirs turned sideways. The water would first be filtered by the filter socks. Then flow out of that chamber over a pad of filter floss, then down through the bio media. This would get the particulate matter out before it hits the refugium.
 
#16 ·
WhitzEnd,
So is your first stage like the proflex sumps, where the water must travel through the socks, but there is also an overflow option as seen in the image i posted above. I'd guess yours will be the same but its hard to see from the angle you posted. If you could, please post some measurements, and images as you work through this. Also keep a tally of your costs as a reference.

I think that this is a great idea, and it's cool to see someone doing it, Heck i might do this also!

As far as a refugium, Whats your intent here as far as plants? Has anyone had success with a refugium setup on freshwater, and does it really effectively reduce the nitrates? I ask because in theory it's a good idea, but whats the amount of plants needed to be effective? My tapwater is pretty high in nitrates, and this would be a great solution to a RO system.

pretty please, keep up updated with details and photos! we all love photos!
 
#18 ·
lexi73 said:
WhitzEnd,
So is your first stage like the proflex sumps, where the water must travel through the socks, but there is also an overflow option as seen in the image i posted above. I'd guess yours will be the same but its hard to see from the angle you posted. If you could, please post some measurements, and images as you work through this. Also keep a tally of your costs as a reference.

I think that this is a great idea, and it's cool to see someone doing it, Heck i might do this also!

As far as a refugium, Whats your intent here as far as plants? Has anyone had success with a refugium setup on freshwater, and does it really effectively reduce the nitrates? I ask because in theory it's a good idea, but whats the amount of plants needed to be effective? My tapwater is pretty high in nitrates, and this would be a great solution to a RO system.

pretty please, keep up updated with details and photos! we all love photos!
Hey Lexi,

My first stage is pretty much an exact copy of the proflex stage. I have it able to overflow that section in case of the socks getting clogged. It just goes over the top of the wall for that. The overflow "spout" that you see just before it goes through the plate with the holes is coming out after it has passed through the filter socks. There will be a sump block at the exit of the wet/dry section before the refugium. There will be another sump block after the refugium as it spills into the return section to keep solids out of the return. (a feature I stole from the trigger systems Ruby 36S sump) The Trigger Systems sumps were also my inspiration for using colored acrylic to keep light inside the sections that it needs to stay in.

Heres a different angle on the pic.



I am keeping a tally of all my costs as well. I went to my local plastics distributor yesterday and got the acrylic ordered. I am just waiting on them to call me with the total. I had them cut it to rough size then I will trim it if needed. I am also doing a top for it as well. Ill get that worked up in sketchup today and post some pics. The 11 5/8 x 24 piece is so I can make the drip plate and have some extra to test my acrylic welding skills with. Here is my cut list for a Marineland/Perfecto 40 gallon tank. Actual internal dimensions are 35.5 x 11.75 x 20.

Grey
1 - 11 5/8 x 19
1 - 11 5/8 x 6
1 - 11 5/8 x 15
2 - 11 5/8 x 11
1 - 11 5/8 x 10
1 - 11 5/8 x 24

Black
1 - 11 1/2 x 36

Clear
1 - 12 x 12
1 - 2" OD acrylic tube 12" long and capped with grey acrylic on one end

Im not sure what im going to do for plants yet. To be honest i have no clue how much is needed to effectively reduce nitrates. Though I figure any reduction will be welcome. If the fuge doesnt work out like I want then I at least have some extra water volume and I can screen in that section to house fry or quarantine expectant mothers. *** been scouring these forums to see what people have grown successfully. Ill probably go java fern, anubias, and maybe some spiral valls (I love the way those look) If the plants do well in the fuge I may try my hand at some in tank ones too. My tapwater has a bit of nitrate in it as well (~5-10ppm)

To tim_s,

My PH is 8 out of the tap. I buffer it to bring it up to 8.2. Not sure about ferts yet. Still doing my research. As far as the theory between this and HOB/Canister filters. My current filter on my 55 is an emperor 400. I have the regular filter cartridges and 2 fullly submerged cell pore bio slabs that I have had for many years. (I havent been able to find them anywhere in years) Those take care of the anaerobic portion of the wet/dry filter. It also has 2 bio wheels that take care of the part exposed to air. *** tried other bio media submerged in it and I just love those cell pore blocks. Those will probably go in my sump to get the tank cycled.
 
#19 ·
And the plastics guy just called. So here is the grand total.

40 Gal Marineland/Perfecto tank - $80
All acrylic precut to size and some weld-on - $100
2 tubes of GE Silicone 1 - $10
2 2x4x12 inch foam sump blocks - $10

Grand Total = $200

Saving 169 bucks over buying the proflex model 4 at my LFS and not getting quite what i wanted - Priceless
 
#20 ·
Thanks for the additional details, it surely helps. So looks from your sketch the sizes are roughly:
1st stage - 6"
2nd Wet/Dry - 10"
2nd sump block - 2"
3rd refugium - 10"
3nd sump block - 2"
4th return - 6"

The colored acrylic is a great idea to keep the light in the refugium only as to grow items only there. I'm really interested how this turns out for you, as i'm highly considering doing this myself after i get back from vacation. Stage 1 will also house my heaters, so i'd make the first stage shelf also removable with a notch for the cords.

Just as a rundown of your parts:

Grey
1 - 11 5/8 x 19 - first stage wall
1 - 11 5/8 x 6 - Filter Sock horizontal platform
1 - 11 5/8 x 15 - Second Stage Wall
2 - 11 5/8 x 11 - Third stage entry wall
1 - 11 5/8 x 10 - third stage exit wall
1 - 11 5/8 x 24 - Drip and Extra Piece

What about return wall?

Black
1 - 11 1/2 x 36 - Top ?

Clear
1 - 12 x 12 - Top refugium cover?
 
#21 ·
lexi73 said:
Thanks for the additional details, it surely helps. So looks from your sketch the sizes are roughly:
1st stage - 6"
2nd Wet/Dry - 10"
2nd sump block - 2"
3rd refugium - 10"
3nd sump block - 2"
4th return - 6"

The colored acrylic is a great idea to keep the light in the refugium only as to grow items only there. I'm really interested how this turns out for you, as i'm highly considering doing this myself after i get back from vacation. Stage 1 will also house my heaters, so i'd make the first stage shelf also removable with a notch for the cords.

Just as a rundown of your parts:

Grey
1 - 11 5/8 x 19 - first stage wall
1 - 11 5/8 x 6 - Filter Sock horizontal platform
1 - 11 5/8 x 15 - Second Stage Wall
2 - 11 5/8 x 11 - Third stage entry wall
1 - 11 5/8 x 10 - third stage exit wall
1 - 11 5/8 x 24 - Drip and Extra Piece

What about return wall?

Black
1 - 11 1/2 x 36 - Top ?

Clear
1 - 12 x 12 - Top refugium cover?
And you are spot on with the sizes. I may adjust a little here and there for my return pump. Which will be a mag 9.5. I think....

The 2 - 11 5/8 x 11 is the refugium entry and exit wall. The 1 - 11 5/8 x 10 is the return wall. And you are right about the top. The black top will have a hole cut in it and the clear will be added to the window for the refugium light. Im working on designging the top now. It will probably be in a couple of pieces.
 
#23 ·
WhitzEnd said:
And you are spot on with the sizes. I may adjust a little here and there for my return pump. Which will be a mag 9.5. I think....

The 2 - 11 5/8 x 11 is the refugium entry and exit wall. The 1 - 11 5/8 x 10 is the return wall. And you are right about the top. The black top will have a hole cut in it and the clear will be added to the window for the refugium light. Im working on designging the top now. It will probably be in a couple of pieces.
Ahh i missed the 2x 11 5/8... yes i get it now.
 
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