I also apologize for the thread hijack, but mstama called his fish
rivulatus, which tends to set off these things, especially if there is no photo! :lol:
Okay, I was wrong about a couple of things, as a result of my poor memory. Due to this discussion, I went back to the discussion on CRC, and then to Alf Stalsberg's site:
http://www.lem.net/alf/aeq.htm. While he has not yet updated with
Andinoacara and still has
stalsbergi listed as "Silbersaum", there is a detailed narrative explaining the errors of identification in the past, which he personally straightened out by going to Peru and Ecuador to collect fish. I would really love the opportunity to meet Mr. Stalsberg, as his efforts showed a dedication to clearing up this confusion, and a logical application of data that is evident if one reads it
carefully. No skimming!!! :wink:
First, I was mistaken about Ronny_M's fish. It is a White Seam, an apparent recessive genetic variant of the Gold Saum. This is evident by the width of the border, which is the same as a Gold Saum. It also has the scale coloration of the Gold Saum, of course, which says that it cannot be
stalsbergi. Until I went back and looked more carefully at stalsberg's photo he calls
rivulatus, I did not realize that these actually are two diffent fish. In the discussion on CRC, one participant mentioned seeing 25% white seam individuals in a pond of feral Gold Saum fish in Hawaii. That number is what identifies it to me as a recessive gene, and Ronny_M's photos (the first I've seen of this form) suggest that it is not a hybrid, but a variant/population of Gold Saum. However, it is under no circumstances
Andinoacara stalsbergi.
If you look at Stalsberg's site, you will find that the Ecuadoran fish from the Rio Esmerelda, which KULLANDER identified as
rivulatus, has a narrow edge that resembles the recently described Peruvian fish; however, it has the scale color pattern of the Gold Saum, so it is obviously a different species from either Gold Saum (by the fin edges) or the Silbersaum/
stalsbergi (by the scale coloration and geographical distribution). A look at a topographical map also shows that it is geologically isolated from the others by a small range of mountains. Stalsberg mentions this in his narrative, and most seem to have overlooked that fact. I know I did the first time.
I read the recent description of
stalsbergi, and the authors seemed to be unaware of the fish that Stalsberg says Kullander identified as the real
rivulatus. In fact, they describe the Red edging of the Gold Saum as one of the characters of
rivulatus that makes it possible to distinguish that species from
stalsbergi. They also point to the different scale patterns, which fortunately is a more dependable means of distinguishing between
stalsbergi and the other two.
My conclusions are as follows: the describers of
stalsbergi did not adequately research the other forms in the group prior to assigning relationships. They misread references that placed
rivulatus in Ecuador as meaning the Gold Saum species, and were even unaware that there are populations of that species that also have white fin edges, not to mention the existence of the Esmerelda fish as a distinct species. Despite all that, the description is still good, and the original "Green Terror" of the American hobby is this newly described species.
Hobbyists have been placing way too much importance on the color of the "seams", and ignoring the scale pattern, which is a far more important characteristic. Patterns are always more stable than colors, as evidenced by the fact that Gold Saum can throw recessive White Seams.
The fish that Stalsberg calls the real
rivulatus based on identification done by Kullander PROBABLY HAS NOT ENTERED THE AMERICAN HOBBY, SFAIK. The two species currently available are Gold Saum and
stalsbergi, aka Green Terror. The region at Esmerelda, Ecuador, has not been heavily collected by commercial or even private individuals, the only one I'm aware of being - Alf Stalsberg. Since he had the sense to send preserved specimens to Kullander for ID, I tend to trust his judgement.