Hard Water

[dsawyer56]

I know that African Cichlids liike hard water. Is it the general hardness that they like or the KH that they like high? Or is it both? My KH is very high which I read will buffer my water nicely. I have hard water from my tap but we have a water softner so the water in my tank is actually soft. Will this hurt my Cichlids? Should I bypass the softner when I do my next water change? Since my softner uses salt I thought that this would actually work well since they like a small amount of salt in the water.

[MalawiLover]

Its both that they prefer to be high. The KH being high will help your ph remain stable.

Using the softened water won't hurt the fish, but its not nessicarily ideal for their body chemistry. Unless you have wild caught fish, they will be rather accomodating to the softerwater, but If you can bypass the softener they would probably like it better, but its not reqired for them to survive.

Lake Malawi: pH 7.8-8.4, Gh 4.0-6.0 dH, Kh 6.0 to 8.0 dH
Lake Tanganyika: pH 8.6 to 9.5, Gh 11-17 dH, Kh 16 to 19 dH.

If you straight tap water is close to the needs of your fish, bypass the softener.
_________________
125gMale peacocks/haps
95g-Malawi Mbuna
55g-Mixed community
30g-x2 Grow out
12.5g-Fry
IS YOUR DECHLORINATOR WORKING??

[Wolffishin]

I also have very hard natural water and a whole house water softener.
Bypassing would be very difficult since the softener is in the basement and my tank is two flights up stairs.

My water still has a high Kh after the softener but 0ppm of Gh.
I've just been adding 2 teaspoons of epsom salt per 5G to my water changes and the Gh is very slowly getting to about 100ppm Gh.

Seems to be working fine so far and the high Kh is keeping my pH of about 8.0 rock solid.
_________________
55G All Male Malawi: 1 German Red Peacock, 1 Ngara Flametail Peacock, 1 Yellow Lab, 1 Venustus, 1 Tramitichromis Intermedius, 1 Placidochromis Electra, 1 Pictus Cat (don't tell him he's not a Malawi)

[MalawiLover]

Yes, adding epsom salt will increase your Gh. If the ph is low you can also add baking soda (sodium bicarbonate). These are two of the three ingredients in the Rift Lake Buffer recipemany of us with less than ideal water use. Both are very cheap at your local drug store or grocery store.
_________________
125gMale peacocks/haps
95g-Malawi Mbuna
55g-Mixed community
30g-x2 Grow out
12.5g-Fry
IS YOUR DECHLORINATOR WORKING??

[dsawyer56]

Thanks for the replies. This really helps. I will get some epsom salt.

[gwandana]

Lake Malawi: pH 7.8-8.4, Gh 4.0-6.0 dH, Kh 6.0 to 8.0 dH

Can I continue this a bit more?

The above stats as far as I can see are spot on for Lake Malawi, yet so many profiles of the fish specify hard water, or even recommend a KH of 10 to 12 or so.

Totally confused as to why this is so. Could someone please enlighten me.

[dsawyer56]

OK, I have finally successfully cycled my tank. My ammonia and nitrites are at zero and my nitrates are low. My ph is 8.4 my kh is 300 but my gh is very low. I did some research on adding the epsom salt and some people recommend against adding it. I guess my question is should I even tinker with it at all? My fish seem to be doing fine and I would rather not worry about adding something else to the tank. Thanks.

[Wolffishin]

You don't have to do anything.
Stable conditions are more important than exact conditions.
And the Kh is part of the total hardness (Kh+Gh combination), your Kh is high.

I choose to add 2 teaspoons of epsom salt per 5G at water changes because I have 0ppm of Gh and my Kh is not as high as yours.
I'm very regimented and exact with my water changes so I make sure the tank Gh does not vary.

JMO.

BTW, I assume we are talking about conditions for Malawis.
_________________
55G All Male Malawi: 1 German Red Peacock, 1 Ngara Flametail Peacock, 1 Yellow Lab, 1 Venustus, 1 Tramitichromis Intermedius, 1 Placidochromis Electra, 1 Pictus Cat (don't tell him he's not a Malawi)

[dsawyer56]

Thanks for the reply. I have an African Cichlid tank. I was told that anything at Petsmart labeled African Cichlid can live together. I have not really watched to see if they are all Malawi. I have 1 yellow lab, 1 firemouth, 1 red zebra, 1 blue cobalt zebra, 2 catfish, 1 pleco and a couple Cichlids I really don't know the name of. I'm adding fish slowly and will add 3 or 4 more. My gh is zero and my kh is 300, i didn't know you added the two together for the total hardness. I'm just excited that I finally got my tank cycled. Thanks for your help.

[Wolffishin]

I don't know if you actually add the Gh and Kh together but having a high Kh even though you have zero calcium/magnesium hardness helps.

If the fish seem unhealthy or don't fully color up you might consider adding the epsom. But you have to be accurate and consistant.

Don't believe everything from PetSmart.
Not all africans will exist peacefully together. And the different lakes have different water conditions. You have some mbuna from lake malawi and they tend to be aggressive, not all mbuna mix well. And most need to be kept as single males or mixed sex with high female to male ratios.
I'm not sure the firemouth is african.

Be very careful what fish you add and it's important to find out all the fish you have now.
You may already have a problem with your stocklist.
...for example...if you got the one in the african cichlid tank at PetSmart that's yellow with black & white horizontal stripes you have a problem. (auratus)
_________________
55G All Male Malawi: 1 German Red Peacock, 1 Ngara Flametail Peacock, 1 Yellow Lab, 1 Venustus, 1 Tramitichromis Intermedius, 1 Placidochromis Electra, 1 Pictus Cat (don't tell him he's not a Malawi)

[dsawyer56]

Yea, I'm finding that Petsmart should be sued for false advertising in their name. I don't seem to have aggression problems as of yet. The only one that is a problem is my blue cobalt zebra. He chases my red zebra everytime it comes out. I'm wondering if the red zebra is a female. I don't think the firemouth is african either. It is getting along well so far. I'm gonna take my current list of fish to a better independent dealer and find some fish that will work out with what i've got.

[Wolffishin]

Or post what you have, and pictures of what you don't know, in the Malawi section and let the experts there help you.
_________________
55G All Male Malawi: 1 German Red Peacock, 1 Ngara Flametail Peacock, 1 Yellow Lab, 1 Venustus, 1 Tramitichromis Intermedius, 1 Placidochromis Electra, 1 Pictus Cat (don't tell him he's not a Malawi)

[lmhollist]

The firemouth is a central american cichlid and Petsmart has them labeled as such or at least they should (I guess for New World cichlids, Petsmart just labels them all South American). I don't have any experience with them but from what I've read of other member's experiences they can be extremely shy on their own. I think it's definitely not a good idea for the tank you have going, especially with the mbuna ... basically your firemouth is gonna get his butt kicked. I'd try to see if you can trade him in and get another yellow lab or something instead. How large is your tank anyway?
_________________
75Gx2 O. ovatus, A. jacobfreibergi, A. stuartgranti undu reef, P. steveni taiwan reef, Labidochromis sp. "Hongi" (SRT)
75G Jack Dempsey pair
46G Bow Community
150G & 75G Turtles
55G EBJD
55G M. Auratus
55G A. Maylandi
150G Future Victorian?

[dsawyer56]

I have a 50 gallon 4 ft. long tank. I started with a tropical semi aggressive tank until I found out that my p.h. was too high. Of course Petnotsosmart told me to use ph down which killed a good majority of my fish from the stress. After a little research I gave away the rest of my fish and started a cichlid tank. So far my Firemouth is doing fine. He actually sometimes bullys my Yellow lab. I was wondering about my fish coloring up. What is the best way to do this? I currently use Hikari cichlid gold along with flakes and freeze dried blood worms. Anything else I should be giving them? Or anything else I can do?