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Cheap wet/dry sump

34K views 73 replies 25 participants last post by  Hoosier Tank 
#1 ·
So I've been trying to come up with idea's for a DIY sump for my up coming 180g tank project. I have read all the posts that my various searches can find, all revolve around a tank or sheet acrylic boxes. I took a look around the garage and found a 122qt / 115ltr Sterilite storage bin with lid and a 5 gallon bucket. What do you think of this?

I would use egg crate to keep the blue backed prefilter off from the Pot scrubbis, drill the bottom of the bucket with drain holes and set it in a tray that has a poly-fill mat for the final filtration that has an eggcrate bottom. The bucket and bin lids would have holes large enough to fit past the pipe union would would allow me to remove the lids to change the prefilter and then lift the bucket to change out the poly-fill final filter without desturbing the bio medial.
I could support the Bin sides from bowing with 2 x4's integrated into the stand for if it fills from a tank drainage in a power outage.
Am I a crack-pot? :lol:
 
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#27 ·
Mcdaphnia said:
The other works on a concrete slab floor. Jackhammer out a few square yards of floor. Dig down three or four feet. Line the excavation with a pond liner.
WOW :eek:
I don't think I'd be posting here much after that because SWMBO would KILL ME! :lol:
 
#28 ·
cholile said:
I think your confusion stems from the fact that when you look at it you don't see too many holes and so you're wondering how 'fresh' air is getting in the area. But it doesn't take much for air to find its way in and out of the area. Just the little holes themselves and the water itself elsewhere touching air allows new air in the area even if it is often 'mixed' with the water.
I thought about it some more, and I realized thats half of my problem. The other thing is that I was thinking instantaneously not figuring in the concept of time. So even if there is little airflow at any instance, there still is airflow, so over time its effective.

But now I am thinking this is an obvious area of improvement - to create more airflow inside the wet/dry media container (ignoring the sump).

Theres no way to easily calculate this, but the most effective wet/dry would have a larger "fresh air" supply than the oxygen consumption of the the bio media.

This would make the perfect advertising gimmick.
 
#29 ·
Also think of it like this; cold air is more dense than warm air. The colder air (air inside your house) will rush in through all the cracks and crevices of the sump were warmer air is escaping. To test this theory, turn the A/C on in your house and shut all the bedroom doors, let it run like this for a few minutes. Then crouch down and feel the colder air flowing out from under the gap between the door and floor.

The way I look at it, this is same principle in how "fresh" air gets into a sump that is sealed, but not 100% sealed (like the ones discussed in this post).
 
#30 ·
Looks good man, I used a similar container for my 125s sump. I used a stackable container rather than a bucket though for the "filter" part. It works really good even if it looks a little funny. I can't see any reasons you'll have problems with yours from the looks of it. Makes mine look down right Ghetto.
 
#31 ·
Here is the final poduct. It has been up and running for 3 weeks now. I transfered 4 potscrubbies and some filter floss from my other tanks and mixxed in with the new scrubbies.
Amonia has consistantly been less that .25ppm and the Nitrites are zero with minimal nitrates at less than 20ppm. Of course I have a minimal bioload so far with only 14 young adult Mbuna.
Inside the tote is a CA4000 pump and a 500w titanium heater from Catalina Aquariums mounted with their suction cups onto a piece of scrap plexiglass to keep from coming in contact with the tote itself. very quiet and temps are a solid 80 degrees all through the tank.
Oh and don't let the baseboard heater fool you, it hasn't been on in years and the tank now hides it from view.


I used Bulldogg7's skimmerless overflow I found in our library.
Here is the Bare bones start with the original u-tubes I soon replaced when 3 fish wound up getting clear down to the sumps drip tray.


Side view


Top view showing lid to help keep things quiet.


Supreme King Siphon tubes I found at the LFS that have strainer slots and caps to prevent fish being getting sucked into overflow and taking a ride down the hose to the filter bucket.


Here are pics from earlier of the returns via UGJ, on the top right is a nozzel that is half submerged to provide surface aggitation and act as a siphon break. There is another nozzel 1/2 way down the same black pipe feeding the loop.




All said and done, I am extremely happy with this project and would be glad to answer questions anyone may have or assist in any way I can!

 
#32 ·
i am about to build the same thing!!!!!

i have a 37g container(same color) and same size. going to use the 5g bucket also.

now does your 5g bucket rest on the lid or does it sit on the bottom or on a stand on the bottom?
i have enough room to sit the bucket on a stand of some sort(probably with eggcrate and pvc or some plastic legs) and do not really trust it hanging on the lid.

and for the overflow, did you build it or buy it and modify it?? it looks nice. i built some pvc overflows and they seem huge. which they are. they are like 14" deep in the tank. it was cheap but i dont think i like them and they are not even in the tank yet.

i think i am going to build an acrylic overflow instead. which is making me wonder where you got the u-tubes.

but your tank looks awesome. really nice job.
 
#33 ·
if you had the time, I would build a second bucket setup exactly as the first and install that in the other half of the styrylite box, put the return pump in between them and have twice the filtration and bio media. good thing is when time to clean, you can do them one at a time and your bio colony will be less effected. Also doubles the size of your blue pad which would help keep it from cloggin for twice as long. my sump has 300 square inches of filter media exposed to the flow and helps keep my maintenance low.
 
#34 ·
Hoosier...

Did you DIY your 180g tank or buy it ready-made? That's the size I would live to get for a new set-up and was wondering if most of you guys here build your own tanks. I have a buddy that can build me the stand - so that part will be no problem. I have a local glass company... I guess they can order the panels for me - I think 180g should be around 72x24x24. Not sure the thickness I would need... 1/2" or 3/4"?

I am def gonna use your DIY sump... thanks for providing the info.

Nate
 
#36 ·
Wolfe...

See pics 6-7 above and on pic 6 caption he says that he has a nozzle on his return line that feeds his UGJs that is barely below surface level. He says that acts as his syphon break in case of power failure.

Nate
 
#38 ·
Wow, what responces :D Lets see if I can answer these in order...
dreday said:
does your 5g bucket rest on the lid or does it sit on the bottom or on a stand on the bottom?
i have enough room to sit the bucket on a stand of some sort(probably with eggcrate and pvc or some plastic legs) and do not really trust it hanging on the lid.

and for the overflow, did you build it or buy it and modify it??
i think i am going to build an acrylic overflow instead. which is making me wonder where you got the u-tubes.
.
Yes the bucket rests on the lid on the lowest lip of the bucket. There really is no weight supported, neither the bucket nor anything in it weighs much plus it's water level and the level in the sump are equal and cancel out any weight it does have.
I thought of a eggcrate and PVC stand in the first drawing but it's really not needed. Unless you want to put another layer of filter / quilt batting on it for final polishing.
The overflow is a Speciman container I bought for $5 and drilled for the PVC fittings. I used Bulldogg7 DIY in the Library on the "Skimmerless Overflow".

mikmaze said:
if you had the time, I would build a second bucket setup exactly as the first and install that in the other half of the styrylite box, put the return pump in between them and have twice the filtration and bio media.
True, I can always get another lid to cut two holes to double-up if needed. THANKS

Natedawg63 said:
Did you DIY your 180g tank or buy it ready-made? That's the size I would live to get for a new set-up and was wondering if most of you guys here build your own tanks.
Worse, I bought a busted acrylic 180 and repaired it the polished the gazillion scratches out, but it only cost $100. SEE THIS POST

fishwolfe said:
when the power is off,doesn't the tank drain to the first hole in your U tubes?
No, thats the beauty of Bulldogg7's design, the tank level only drops to the TOP of the PVC pipe in the overflow that drains to the sump. It doesn't matter how deep the u-tubes go into the tank, plus, because the U-tubes ar lower in the overflow than the height of the drain, you never loose siphone.
Read the write-up in the library, it explains it well. "Skimmerless Overflow".

Whew, did I miss anything?
 
#40 ·
i am still not clear on the siphon.

how does the break on the return stop the drain?

i have a sump now with a regular overflow box. so if i took off the inside box and had just the tubes when would the water stop draining???

until the water gets below the tubes, then you loose siphon and it wont restart with out sucking the air out.

not sure how the stand pipe will stop the water.

i guess what the article was saying is that the stand pipe needs to be at the height were you want your tank level to be. so if the tank level drops below the stand pipe that will stop the flow of water out??

just want to make sure i understand. i do need to build some more drains as i stated earlier so i just trying to verify my brain so i dont flood my living room... :fish:
 
#41 ·
Yes dreday that is correct. I think where you are getting confused is the holes in my u-tubes are well below the overflow height. so there is no way for air to get in and loose the siphone. About the best example I can give is similar to whats in the article.
Say you have a tank full of water and a long hose and a 5g bucket. Set the bucket on the floor, punch a bunch of holes in the hose close to the ends, but none in the center and put the hose in the tank close to the bottom. Now start siphoning water into the bucket and put the hose into the bucket clear down to the bottom. The bucket will continue to fill, even when both ends of the hose are covered, right?
Now when the bucket is half full so all holes in the hose are covered, lift the bucket to be higher than the tank, water will reverse direction and flow out of the bucket and back into the tank, go it so far? Now slightly lower the bucket until it's water level is the same as the tank water level. All flow stops because the levels are equalized.... but your hose is still full of water because both ends and all the holes are below the water surface, even if there are holes in the hose, if they are below the water level no air can get in...with me so far?
OK, if you drill a hole on the side of the bucket just above the water level, no water will drain out right?
If you lower the bucket 2" and hold it there, water will flow out of the tank into the bucket and out the hole you drilled UNTIL the tank level drops the same 2" you lowered the bucket. Then the tank level AND the bucket level are again equalized but just below the hole and the flow will stop again...got it?
The overflow box is the bucket, the u-tubes are the hose and the standpipe is the hole in the side of the bucket.
Now if you shut off the pump, once water level drops to the height of the standpipe it can not drain any lower, nowhere to go, even though both ends of the u-tubes are below the water line. No air can get into the u-tubes because both ends are still under water so the siphone doesn't break. So when the pump turns back on, it raises the tank level above the standpipe and water again flows.
HTH
 
#43 ·
It looks great, wish I could've found those materials back then. That cover is sweet does it really reduce the noise a lot? I may get a bigger tank in a few months and go back to the skimmerless.
Those siphon tubes look like they were made for the skimmerless, were the superking's HOB's?

Love the mariner theme on that wall, had an idea for something siilar, but wife didn't let me yet.
 
#44 ·
Thanks, the cover I made out of two pieces of 1/8" sheet cutting one smaller than the opening and one larger then glueing them together does quiet it some but you still water running down the hose.
The tubes are Supreme brand "King Siphon" from E. G. Danner Mfg.. As dusty as the packages were at my LFS, that probably explains why I couldn't find them listed on the websight. And why I got them for $5 :p
The ships wheel and net were there first! The whole Family Room has been Nautical theme since the remodel 9 years ago. Sailing ships, lighthouses, old fishing lures and reels and fish.
 
#45 ·
well to reduce the noise of the stand pipe, could you not put it at an angle??

i know it would be tight in the box but if you put in a 45 bend pvc that would slant the pipe it should reduce noise.

i think i might try one like that. maybe with only one U-tube in it. i plan on using 2 overflows per tank.

by the way what is your gph right now?? around 1000?
and the size of the drain is 1.5"?

thanks again

dre
 
#46 ·
Actually I figure it's close to 900gph with the head height I have and a 1200gph pump. If I would have made two overflows I would have had only 1 u-tube in each also. You want the water flowing fast enough to keep bubbles from forming and possibly breaking the siphon.
With only 1 u-tube per overflow there would be room for a Durso standpipe. It's basically a "T" sideways on the standpipe so the 90 portion points sideways and the top capped with a small vent hole in it. Similar to this DURSO LINK except with the whole unit inside the speciman container and exiting out the bottom similar in fashion to mine...
I find the little trickeling noise mine does make rather soothing :D
 
#47 ·
its a fine line between trickling and gurgling. right now i have a trickle but before i had a gurgle and it drove me crazy. it was louder than the tv!?!?!?!

yea i forgot about durso. i guess i could try to make a little one in the container. i thought they had to be a certain height though. i guess it is just the concept that needs to be applied.

hmm more ideas to think about.
 
#48 ·
There have been many discussions on overflow/sump noise on a lot of other sites. I literally spent about four weeks researching the cause of noise and some solutions (I was ... bored at work). The good news is that there are two methods I found for "silent" overflow/sump setup. The bad news is that they do not work with HOB overflows. I think durso is the best you can do for a HOB overflow - which usually ends up being extremely difficult in those little boxes with very little room behind the tank. Especially with dual overflows and a single overflow box. One thing I tried was dual overflows and dual overflow boxes. That gave a little bit more room.

Another option is the muffler...

http://home.everestkc.net/jrobertson572 ... ction.html

I have seen mixed reviews on it though, and I never tried it on a full scale setup - but its pretty cheap to build and try.
 
#50 ·
Hoosier Tank

Great thread, I just recently came across a deal that i might be getting a 180. *** been following your threads on the 180 and it turned out awesome.

I Really like your sump idea and plan to use this if the deal doesnt fall thru. I have just a couple questions for you.

Now that is has been running for a while is everything still functioning as planned, what other filtration do you have in the tank, and finally what pump did you use and how much did it cost.

Thanks again for making this post. Hopefully it works out and i will be building one of these myself pretty soon.
 
#51 ·
Yes, evrything is running well and no issues yet... knock on wood. The pump is a Catalina Aquarium CA-4000. Here is the link http://www.catalinaaquarium.com/product_info.php?products_id=1584.
As of yet it is the only filtration I have. Not a heavy bio load yet but these fish are making up for it. 2 batches of fry growing in the rocks and a 3rd momma holding :D. I thought later I may add a canister like a magnum as a water polisher but so far everything is crystal clear.
 
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