Lake Malawi Species • New to Cichlids 5x2x2 tank

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Re: New to Cichlids 5x2x2 tank

Postby Aaron S » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:00 pm

Circling can be aggression too. FYI. It is darn difficult to figure out if its play or fighting.
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Re: New to Cichlids 5x2x2 tank

Postby DJRansome » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:47 pm

Aaron S wrote:Circling can be aggression too. FYI. It is darn difficult to figure out if its play or fighting.
Plus one.
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75G Demasoni, Maingano, Msobo, Lucipinnis
75G Calvus, Caudopunctatus, Petricola
55G Chrysonotus; 38G Demasoni
33G Hara; 33G Kwanga; 33G Maingano; 33G Cobue
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Re: New to Cichlids 5x2x2 tank

Postby wryan » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:16 pm

Thanks.
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Re: New to Cichlids 5x2x2 tank

Postby daviddj » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:07 am

My (very limited) experience of my acei is this;

They have grown exceptionally fast; possible it's proportional to their final size, possibly due to the fact that they seem to get to the food before any other fish and eat more than any other fish. (See Q1 below)
They don't interact with, or harass other fish at all UNLESS the other fish is weak or injured then they become very predatorial and "focused"
There has been no con-specific aggression at all until two days ago when all 6 left number 7 floating on one side on the surface; I was able to scoop him out with my hand. I left him in the QT for 24 hours before returning him to the DT where he is no longer under attack but neither is he fully "in-the -gang" either. I returned him and a yellow lab that had been recuperating for a week by not feeding the tank all day. Then while feeding at one end of the tank I dumped the two fish in at the other end - noone seemed to notice :thumb: (See Q2)

So;
Q1 Feeding - small and frequent vs a larger and fewer. The smaller the feeds the more of the food the acei eat and the less the other fish get. With larger feeds more seems to "trickle down" to the smaller or less assertive fish.

Q2 After removing a fish from the DT how long does it take for the other fish to "forget" him? Is there a window where they will remember him as a tank-mate if he is returned? Does anyone have any theories on whether sharing tank water has any effect on recognition or familiarization? https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00265-016-2260-6
5x2x2: Mainganos, Rusties, Yellow Labs, Perlmutts, Acei, Petricolas
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Re: New to Cichlids 5x2x2 tank

Postby Iggy Newcastle » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:14 am

Q1-
Whatever you plan on feeding, do it all at once. Hold the food in pinched fingers, in current. Let go and let the water flow blow all the food everywhere. This will eliminate your problem with hogs eating everything.

Q2-
Interesting question. My hypothesis would be a couple hours, tops. No issues. I've pulled holding females, stripped and put right back in the primary tank. No issues. I've separated holding females for several days, and their introduction to the primary tank is met with 'new guy' attention. I certainly don't think these fish are brainless killers, but their memory is awful IMO.
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Re: New to Cichlids 5x2x2 tank

Postby wryan » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:18 pm

daviddj wrote:My (very limited) experience of my acei is this;

They have grown exceptionally fast; possible it's proportional to their final size, possibly due to the fact that they seem to get to the food before any other fish and eat more than any other fish. (See Q1 below)

Mine do not appear to have grown quite as fast as yours ... but then they are in a smaller tank (48 x 12 x 21)

They are certainly pigs tho' when it comes to food.

daviddj wrote:They don't interact with, or harass other fish at all UNLESS the other fish is weak or injured then they become very predatorial and "focused"
There has been no con-specific aggression at all until two days ago when all 6 left number 7 floating on one side on the surface; I was able to scoop him out with my hand. I left him in the QT for 24 hours before returning him to the DT where he is no longer under attack but neither is he fully "in-the -gang" either. I returned him and a yellow lab that had been recuperating for a week by not feeding the tank all day. Then while feeding at one end of the tank I dumped the two fish in at the other end - noone seemed to notice :thumb: (See Q2)

I can't say that there is currently no aggression by the acei's here ... but for the most part it seems pretty mild and is all very short-lived (mostly measured in a few seconds, with no extended interactions)

And almost all of the unprovoked acei aggression is conspecific.

daviddj wrote:So;
Q1 Feeding - small and frequent vs a larger and fewer. The smaller the feeds the more of the food the acei eat and the less the other fish get. With larger feeds more seems to "trickle down" to the smaller or less assertive fish.

When I'm feeding sinking pellets I feed enough that the majority of gets consumed within 30 seconds, leaving some to hit the substrate for the bottom feeders (loachs, BNPs)

When feeding veggie wafers which are hard and too big for any fish to fit in their mouths, they obviously stay in the tank unconsumed for a longer period of time ... but they are usually gone within an hour.

Generally speaking, I feed 3 to 5 times per day and give them a day off about every week or 10 days. What they get fed is a mix: Flakes, Small Sinking Cichlid Pellets, Veggie Rounds, Freeze-dried Tubifex (all Omega One) and occasionally my own home brewed food which is a dried mix of vegetables and shrimp.

daviddj wrote:Q2 After removing a fish from the DT how long does it take for the other fish to "forget" him? Is there a window where they will remember him as a tank-mate if he is returned? Does anyone have any theories on whether sharing tank water has any effect on recognition or familiarization? https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00265-016-2260-6

FWIW, I had an auratus that I removed from the 55G and stuck it in a 10G about a month or so ago because it was particularly quarrelsome (initiating aggression, and not just conspecific aggression) ... I put it back in the 55G yesterday afternoon and it was immediately targeted and harassed by the other auratus.

As of now that is still going on, at least to some degree ...
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Re: New to Cichlids 5x2x2 tank

Postby Leyshpunctatus » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:45 pm

Q2 - Not so sure for other fish in general but I have read that the Paradise Fish can remember an altercation with another fish for up to 4 months after.
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Re: New to Cichlids 5x2x2 tank

Postby DJRansome » Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:08 pm

Are you asking Q2 to determine whether time out works...or just intellectual curiosity? :)
125G Borleyi, Maleri, Astatotilapia, Multipunctata
75G Demasoni, Maingano, Msobo, Lucipinnis
75G Calvus, Caudopunctatus, Petricola
55G Chrysonotus; 38G Demasoni
33G Hara; 33G Kwanga; 33G Maingano; 33G Cobue
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Re: New to Cichlids 5x2x2 tank

Postby daviddj » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:29 am

DJRansome wrote:Are you asking Q2 to determine whether time out works...or just intellectual curiosity? :)


Mostly the latter... Just curious about how they identify each other, if at all; subtle detail, broad patterns or biochemical cues. And for how long they retain that information. Is there a difference reintroducing a fish that has been held in one of those in tank breeding nets over one from a separate tank?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/28111346
5x2x2: Mainganos, Rusties, Yellow Labs, Perlmutts, Acei, Petricolas
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Re: New to Cichlids 5x2x2 tank

Postby DJRansome » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:16 am

I don't bother with reintroducing any more. If find that the same result happens regardless of the length of time out. And I would not keep an adult fish in a breeder box more than one day and fry more than 7 days.

I believe there are many theories about how the fish interact and no one theory accepted as fact at this time.
125G Borleyi, Maleri, Astatotilapia, Multipunctata
75G Demasoni, Maingano, Msobo, Lucipinnis
75G Calvus, Caudopunctatus, Petricola
55G Chrysonotus; 38G Demasoni
33G Hara; 33G Kwanga; 33G Maingano; 33G Cobue
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Re: New to Cichlids 5x2x2 tank

Postby daviddj » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:31 am

DJRansome wrote:I don't bother with reintroducing any more. If find that the same result happens regardless of the length of time out. And I would not keep an adult fish in a breeder box more than one day and fry more than 7 days.

I believe there are many theories about how the fish interact and no one theory accepted as fact at this time.


As usual thanks for the advice. It's mad how easy saltwater fish were in comparison..
5x2x2: Mainganos, Rusties, Yellow Labs, Perlmutts, Acei, Petricolas
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