South American Cichlids • Pic of my Wild Red Head Severum's.

Discussion regarding only South American Cichlid species. (Oscars, Geophagines, Discus, Apistogramma, Green Terrors, Angels, Severums, Pikes, etc.)

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Postby peathenster » Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:01 pm

The OP's fish is a H. sp. "Rotkeil" and that's what it should be called. Some people do call it red shoulder for apparent reasons. It would be hard to understand why it would be called "red head".
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Postby dwarfpike » Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:59 pm

dwarfpike wrote:See? This is why common names suck.


:popcorn:
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Postby djm761 » Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:59 pm

Bamboo wrote:djim , How big are the $30 Rotkeils ? 8 inch Rotkeils are about $40 and the babies ( 2 inches ) are about $7 here at the local fishstores ... I hear they are ( like Chocalate Cichlids ) are extremely slow growing , so maybe $40 for a 8 inch fish is a good deal ?
We just looked at the Rotkeil Severums they are all 2-4 inches long, and are showing red only on the anal and dorsal fins no red on the heads. and the price is 30.00 dollars per fish.
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Postby TheFishGuy » Sun Jul 24, 2011 4:36 pm

I will do what I can to get pics...
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Postby BillD » Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:04 pm

djm761 wrote:
Bamboo wrote:djim , How big are the $30 Rotkeils ? 8 inch Rotkeils are about $40 and the babies ( 2 inches ) are about $7 here at the local fishstores ... I hear they are ( like Chocalate Cichlids ) are extremely slow growing , so maybe $40 for a 8 inch fish is a good deal ?
We just looked at the Rotkeil Severums they are all 2-4 inches long, and are showing red only on the anal and dorsal fins no red on the heads. and the price is 30.00 dollars per fish.


The price around here has dropped dramatically in the last few years as they have become more common. Around $7 for 2'' to 3" fish seems to be the norm, which is about 3 times wholesale. The anal fins should be orange and the heads are blue. This will show before the shoulder turns red.
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Postby BillD » Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:04 pm

This is an F1 Rotkeil [img][img]http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/BillD560/rotkeil/th_IMG_5780.jpg[/img]

The color is very variable and can range from this to stripes and the red shoulder can be more pronounced. There is no red on the head. [/img]Image

A friend had a female that was almost entirely red on the body; not the head
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Postby TheFishGuy » Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:39 pm

Here's my red shoulders

Image

Male Rotkeil:
Image

Male Red Shoulder:
Image
Last edited by TheFishGuy on Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby peathenster » Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:48 pm

They look great!

I'd think they are all the essentially the same as the OP's fish though...do you think the difference in barring patterns is significant enough to classify them into different "species"?

Might be confusing because male rotkeil has a fair amount of red on the face, and females don't (pretty much all blue).
Last edited by peathenster on Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby TheFishGuy » Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:50 pm

My photo post has been edited to include more horrible photos
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Postby peathenster » Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:53 pm

Mine as well.

Do the "red shoulders" ever show incomplete lateral bars?
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Postby TheFishGuy » Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:54 pm

The red shoulders have never had barring. THe one other person in our club that has them has never noticed barring either.
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Postby Chromedome52 » Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:12 pm

According to Ken Davis, the Rotkeil without bars are hybrids with H. efasciatus. I was surprised to hear this myself, I had hoped they might be a mutation. However, the red band is obviously the same shape and in the same place on both fish.
Whenever something seems too good to be true I find it's best to shoot it, just in case. - Fiona Glenanne on Burn Notice
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Postby TheFishGuy » Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:30 pm

Interesting.
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Postby TheFishGuy » Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:39 pm

I wonder where Ken got his info... Anyone know? I've gotten a lot of compliments on my severum collection. I'd hate to have it be tainted with a hybrid. Not to mention I have two breeding pairs of these that constantly spawn. Fry are currently growing out and are accepted in our b.a.p. program. Hybrids are not allowed.
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Postby peathenster » Sun Jul 24, 2011 9:12 pm

I think the confusion is partly due to the fact that very few wild H. efasciatus has been imported lately. The only batch I can think of were available in the first half of 2009, referred to as H. efasciatus "Tapajos", which turned out to be H. sp. "rotkeil". What should be the most common species is actually the rarest one.
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