DIY - Projects & Ideas • The elimination of the water change???

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Postby TheOriginalFuzzy » Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:31 am

JAyliffe wrote:I will say that my nitrates, whilst rising a little now as my juvies start to get bigger, were up until recently close to 0 most of the time due to the collection of vals and java fern in the main tank. My thought right now as I'm measuring about 20ppm with a weekly change of 25 to 30% is to increase my plant load and see if I can drop them back. I liked bi-weekly water changes!


How many java ferns do you have? I'm currently collecting "stuff" for the big sump and have been trying to figure out how many I should get to start...
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Postby TheOriginalFuzzy » Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:42 am

JimA wrote:All you have really done is create a sump with small ecco system. Cool idea but you will still have to do water changes eventually.

It would be interesting to do on 165 gallon like mine. But then I am only doing a 50% change once a week and all is fine.


The tough thing to try and copy nature's cycle is well, one it's got millions of years of evelou tion and also millions upon millions of gallons of water,tides, ecco systems and well basically life in general to make things go round and round.

To re-create that in a tank in your home, no matter how hard you try is impossible! Way to think out of the box, but I believe others have already tried that type of stuff or something similar.


Well, the eco-system in the sump was kind of the point. There is tons of info on the web for salt water guys and what they should or shouldnt do with their refugiums, but there really wasnt anything other than a lot of unanswered questions when it came to the subject of the freshwater refugium. It really didn't make sense to me that there were not at least SOME posts about it somewhere. I mean, I KNOW I'm not the first person to think of this. So the idea was to post my findings and update as things change so that if someone else is searching for answers to their questions, there will be at least some sort of information for them to read (and see) rather than doing what I did and wasting hours and hours and hours sifting through unanswered questions and posts that turned out to be saltwater guys and therefore no help.
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Postby Number6 » Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:16 am

TheOriginalFuzzy
planted refugiums, algae scrubbers, even organic filter systems are widely discussed and worked through on many sites but the hard core folks head to the aquaponics sites.

I always have planted sumps... nothing new or fancy. Been keeping them for 15 years.
Generally speaking, water changes are never 100% eliminated, just the volume and frequency gets reduced.
My WC cichlids are gonna be caught on rod n reel!
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Postby TheOriginalFuzzy » Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:51 am

Number6 wrote:TheOriginalFuzzy
planted refugiums, algae scrubbers, even organic filter systems are widely discussed and worked through on many sites but the hard core folks head to the aquaponics sites.

I always have planted sumps... nothing new or fancy. Been keeping them for 15 years.
Generally speaking, water changes are never 100% eliminated, just the volume and frequency gets reduced.


Well, they may be widely discussed in certain places but those places arent easy to find searching the web. This was aimed at making some info easier to find for those who consistently pose the question and never get the answers they are looking for. I came across several people asking who were all told "refugiums are only for salt water. You need a canister filter"... RUBISH!
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Re: The elimination of the water change???

Postby n2b8u » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:05 am

Nice setup. Setting up a 75Gallon now. How big should my sump be?
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Re: The elimination of the water change???

Postby zquattrucci » Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:46 pm

what size is good for a 125 always wanted to do on but like has been said nuthing on freshwater looked only found one on you tube and it ant best detail would like to see some more detail pic if you could
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Re:

Postby Ollie » Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:09 am

TheOriginalFuzzy wrote:
Number6 wrote:TheOriginalFuzzy
planted refugiums, algae scrubbers, even organic filter systems are widely discussed and worked through on many sites but the hard core folks head to the aquaponics sites.

I always have planted sumps... nothing new or fancy. Been keeping them for 15 years.
Generally speaking, water changes are never 100% eliminated, just the volume and frequency gets reduced.


Well, they may be widely discussed in certain places but those places arent easy to find searching the web. This was aimed at making some info easier to find for those who consistently pose the question and never get the answers they are looking for. I came across several people asking who were all told "refugiums are only for salt water. You need a canister filter"... RUBISH!


If you want to use plants to remove nitrates then aquatic plants are not your best choice. Their growth is always restricted by the lack of co2 in the water, which is why supplementing co2 is required at high light levels.
One of the best filters I've seen (cant remember where or what it was called) was essentially a planted trickle filter. The particular example I saw used roof guttering that ran the length of the tank, it had the ends blanked off and holes drilled in the bottom with mesh over that. Then it was filled with 6-8mm gravel and planted appropriately. It had a spraybar type arrangement sitting on top of the gravel with holes in both sides instead of one and hooked up to an internal power head with a sponge over the inlet. This type of filter provides loads of o2 for the filter bacteria and massivley boosts the o2 levels in the water. The plants scrub the nitrate and will also take care of any amonia spikes aswell. It also has the added bonus that unlike emersed plants in a riparium type setup the fish cant nibble the roots.

Hope this helps

Regards,

Ollie
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Re: The elimination of the water change???

Postby reflexhunter » Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:41 am

Ollie, do you know where you saw this? I would like to see some more of this kind of set up.
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Re: The elimination of the water change???

Postby Ollie » Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:09 am

Found it :dancing: only taken 2 days lol

http://www.aka.org/UserFiles/File/debruyn_filter.pdf

Regards

Ollie
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Re: The elimination of the water change???

Postby zquattrucci » Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:35 am

:dancing: :dancing:
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Re: The elimination of the water change???

Postby BillD » Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:01 am

Actually I did read. The first thing that jumped at me was the very small water changes you were doing when you set out on your journey of discovery. Increasing water changes to "15 to 20%" is not much of an increase and still a very small change. Adding filtration, of course does nothing to lower nitrates since the function of a filter is to produce nitrates. For me, all the extra equipment and cost to avoid a water change doesn't make sense. A simpler, quicker way to do water changes is easier, but that is only my opinion. Buying extra stuff to avoid replacing water doesn't seem cost effective. Anything we learn in this hobby is worthwhile, so the effort isn't wasted.
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Re: The elimination of the water change???

Postby John27 » Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:56 am

Neat idea!

I keep mine in check with weekly 80% water changes. I always figure, if I'm gonna change the water (since I use a python anyway), I'm gonna do as much as possible! I drain it down to the heaters (so they are still submerged but barely), then refill. A setup like this might allow me to go 10 days between water changes or something like that.

I've seen algae screens made in 5 gallon buckets with grow lights before, pumping water through basically an algae filter, same idea!
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Re: The elimination of the water change???

Postby The King Crabb » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:17 pm

Really enjoyed this! Very original and some great ideas! :thumb:

You might have mentioned this, but how old are those fry? I have what looks like about the same number of yellow lab fry I'd like to try this out on!
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