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Postby cantrell00 » Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:36 pm

CITADELGRAD87 wrote:I will work on him, he's really my most beautiful fish.

Water test results as of today, TEN days in with seeding from an established filter, ammonia is between .5 and 1 ppm. I have done a single dose of ammonia, on day one. I have niether changed water nor added any ammonia since then, I have just been testing the water.

Nitrite, first time I have tested for it, is in the two to five ppm range, man, sometimes these dang charts are tough to read.

Shouldn't the ammonia have dropped to zero, or at least be zero tomorrow, based on the decline? The article mentioned a steep decline, but It's not as steep as I thought it would be.


Was the Nitrite test last night? 2-5 PPM is a pretty big gap. 2 PPM = no issue. 5 PPM can possibly set the ammonia nitrifiers back.

I would check both again tonight and relay the results & we can go from there. I would continue to do nothing but test for the time being..
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Postby CITADELGRAD87 » Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:59 pm

cantrell00 wrote: Was the Nitrite test last night? 2-5 PPM is a pretty big gap. 2 PPM = no issue. 5 PPM can possibly set the ammonia nitrifiers back.

I would check both again tonight and relay the results & we can go from there. I would continue to do nothing but test for the time being..


Yes, 8:00 last night, nitrate tube was purple, definately at least 2, not as dark as 5. The ammonia was very low but not zero.

I will update tonight.
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Postby cantrell00 » Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:34 pm

CITADELGRAD87 wrote:
cantrell00 wrote: Was the Nitrite test last night? 2-5 PPM is a pretty big gap. 2 PPM = no issue. 5 PPM can possibly set the ammonia nitrifiers back.

I would check both again tonight and relay the results & we can go from there. I would continue to do nothing but test for the time being..


Yes, 8:00 last night, nitrate tube was purple, definately at least 2, not as dark as 5. The ammonia was very low but not zero.

I will update tonight.


Cool deal... I actually think you are getting close...
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Postby Dominateprimate » Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:59 pm

This awesome background you have makes it look like your fish are living in the depths of Atlantis! Great looking setup so far. can't wait to see it completed!
55g Mbuna
125 Hap
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Postby CITADELGRAD87 » Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:13 pm

Thanks, Dominateprimate, I appreciate it!

Tonight, I think we are at either 0.0 or possibly a light .25 ammonia, there might be a tinge of green to the yellow.

nitrite appears 2.0.

WHat now? I will re read the article and check back.
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Postby cantrell00 » Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:24 pm

Give it another day to see if the Nitrite trails off...

I would wait for it to disappear, along with the ammonia - measure nitrates & then add ammonia again..

I would not add as much this time though.. 1.0 would be fine. After that - give it another 24 hours and if no amm or nitrite, you are good.

You may have to do a series of 15-20% water changes to get the nitrate down prior to adding fish. I would avoid doing a single, large water change for the first month. You should be fine after that.

I would be surprised if the nitrites weren't gone before the end of the weekend..
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Postby CITADELGRAD87 » Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:27 pm

The article mentions adding ammonia and doing 30% water changes over a couple days, I have not changed any amount of water since this started. (I did add a couple gallons when evaporation had the sump sucking air.)

Your advice does not mention water changes waiting for the nitrite to drop, I just want to make sure I am not missing something.
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Postby cantrell00 » Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:32 pm

IME, water changes have not been necessary.

I have done them after the cycle is completed to reduce nitrates, & just before adding fish.

The only time I would recommend doing water changes prior to cycle completion is in the event that you have a serious run up of nitrites in excess of 5 PPM..

That is why I was initially concerned when you mentioned the possibility of really high nitrites..
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Postby CITADELGRAD87 » Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:36 pm

Cool thank you, I know Tim has mentioned he doesn't see a difference with or without the water changes. Lots of variables and options, last time I cycled it was with the precursor to Dr Tim's, bio spira I think it was called, it was unstable and touch and go, this is my first fishless cycle and I don't want to rush it, well, I am having trouble NOT rushing it but am making myself be certain of every step. I am realy looking forward to some fish in there, but will wait as long as it takes.

THanks very much.
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Postby cantrell00 » Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:42 pm

There are several different ways/varieties to completing these fishless cycles. i don't think there really is a right/wrong answer because each tank and each cycle are so specific to the tank itself. Hard to say. I just refer back to my own first hand experiences.

Honestly though - it is hard to screw one up by doing nothing though.

You are welcome.

I think you should see smooth sailing by the end of the weekend - early next week.
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Postby prov356 » Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:25 am

Water changes can, theoretically, reduce cycle time a bit by not overwhelming the bacteria attempting to get established, but I cycled dozens of tanks just fine without doing them before that suggestion was ever made to me. You'll see nitrite go off chart. You can do water changes to reduce, just be forewarned, keep them low. I've seen large water changes cause setbacks to the nitrite converters, so it's possible to shoot yourself in the foot. Personally, I seed tanks with a small bit of biomedia from another tank (you don't need much and best to be free of mulm) and cycle them in 7-10 days without bothering with water changes. I use water changes if I've got fish on the way and need to quickly finish things out, although I don't recommend putting yourself in that position. Do what I say, not as I do. :D
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Postby CITADELGRAD87 » Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:07 pm

prov356 wrote:Water changes can, theoretically, reduce cycle time a bit by not overwhelming the bacteria attempting to get established, but I cycled dozens of tanks just fine without doing them before that suggestion was ever made to me. You'll see nitrite go off chart. You can do water changes to reduce, just be forewarned, keep them low. I've seen large water changes cause setbacks to the nitrite converters, so it's possible to shoot yourself in the foot. Personally, I seed tanks with a small bit of biomedia from another tank (you don't need much and best to be free of mulm) and cycle them in 7-10 days without bothering with water changes. I use water changes if I've got fish on the way and need to quickly finish things out, although I don't recommend putting yourself in that position. Do what I say, not as I do. :D


That's EXACTLY what I have done, I am 10 days in, seeded with some bio media, actually, i re seeded when I broke down that 10g and figured it could not hurt. I am anticipating 0.0 ammonia today, with nitrites to follow. Funny how every article says "you will think the process stalled" and almost every concern I see about fishless cycling is "I think I am stalled..."

Thanks for the input, I will not do a water change until nitrites drop to 0.0, and I will do partials to get nitrates down.
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Postby CITADELGRAD87 » Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:27 pm

I post this in the firm beleif that I am not the first person to jump the gun in this fashion.

Today, my best LFS is having it's 1/3 off sale, better prices but mostly more and better fish.

I got a mating pair of Black Calvus, a blue peacock, and a couple haps, a tangerine tiger and a Taiwan reef, IIRC.

So now I am REALLY waiting for the cycle to complete, because the 50 looks pretty crowded, and I am planning on daily water changes in the 50 until the cycle is completed.

Photos

Image

Image

Image

Image

I am rapidly approaching completion of the first part of the cycle, so far I added amonia once, seeded with established media and tested the water, NOTHING else.

Almost 13 days in, it's at .25 or 0.0 on ammonia, about 2.0 nitrite.

I have NOT changed water or added ammonia.

My first fishless cycle, I am at a crossroads.
Any tips other than cool my jets?
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Postby CITADELGRAD87 » Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:14 am

I am DEFINATELY at 0.0 ammonia, Nitrate is dropping, I think it's .5, that seems really quick.

At this point, should I do anything, or wait for nitrite to bottom out to 0.0, then dose to 1 ppm? Nothing along the lines of a water change until then?

Just confirming.
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Postby newforestrob » Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:46 am

dose with ammonia,no more than 2 ppm,test for ammonia 24 hrs later
so if I understand you dosed the tank once 14 days ago,with some established media?
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