DIY - Projects & Ideas • G.E. Silicone 1

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Postby bacondaddy » Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:54 pm

so just to be sure. i bought a tube of ge silicone 1 100% silicone rubber sealant. and you all say it is safe for a tank. i called the phone number on the back of the tube and asked them if it was safe. they said no that both silicone 1 and 2 both have anti-fungal chemicals that leach out and will harm aquatic life. i know there is lots of people that say it works, but is there anyone that has had problems with it?
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Postby IrkedCitizen » Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:40 pm

It is safe. GE Silicone I Windows and Doors used to say "Aquarium Safe" on the tube but got taken off.

I am pretty sure the reason why it doesn't say "Aquarium Safe" anymore is because GE and All-Glass Aquariums got together to make a silicone product for AGA. Which AGA/Aqueon charges like $13 a tube and it is "Aquarium Safe".

That is why when you call GE they will tell you that it is not aquarium safe so you will go buy the more expensive AGA/Aqueon silicone.

It's all about the money.
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Postby bacondaddy » Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:53 pm

i was looking at this site

http://www.gesealants.com/sil1_window_door.html

it says silicone 1 does have bioseal.
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Postby IrkedCitizen » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:05 pm

Go to buy AGA/Aqueon aquarium silicone then. It used to not have it in it. They probably added it because Aqueon complained.
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Postby bacondaddy » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:13 pm

i found the material data safty sheet for silicone 1

http://www.efi.org/wholesale/msds/Foam% ... 3500-1.pdf

i don't know what to think
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Postby Agnag » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:44 pm

I have used GE sicone 1 and 2, my friends like silicone 2 better. people say it has that mildew resistant chemical that leaches into the water and kills your fish. That is not true. I have used it and my friends have used it with no ill effects.
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Postby bullonparade » Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:53 pm

Hi

Last week I finished my DIY background and siliconed it to the back of my tank. It's been on there since last Wednesday (March 11) morning. I want to put water in, but I can still smell the silicone. Can I put water in or no?

It's a 55 gallon tank. Background is slate siliconed to plastic siliconed to the glass. I have put the sand and rock in there already, it's just waiting for water now.

The silicone was GE I window and door.

Any help appreciated!
Thanks :)
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Postby jfly » Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:22 pm

#%$&!!!!!!!!!!!! i am finishing up a diy background and i used ge #1 #%$& can i use or cant i.. help please
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Postby Thorin83 » Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:30 pm

darn, I used silicone but I think I was not precise enough. The tank is leaking :/
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Postby imusuallyuseless » Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:43 pm

I've used GE Silicone 1 for windows & Doors many times w/no problems.
110G: GT & Metae
55G Growout: Oscar x2, Gold Sev, Cutteri x5
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Postby mikesl » Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:56 pm

I just used silcone I in small qty for adhering a 3D background.

I read the MSDS posted above, and while I am not a trained chemist, I didn't see any ingredients in that MSDS that look like fungicide.

The most dangerous appears to be the 5-10% METHYLTRIACETOXYSILANE, which is toxic if ingested, but this is only present in the uncured state. It is the chemical that breaks down and releases acetic acid (vinegar smell) during curing. Don't eat uncured silicone :-)

I know MSDS's look scary, but based on the years of user experience and the lack of any chemical on the data sheet that looks to be there only as a fungicide, I am OK with silicone I for my tanks.
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Postby ccla » Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:49 pm

bacondaddy wrote:i was looking at this site

http://www.gesealants.com/sil1_window_door.html

it says silicone 1 does have bioseal.


This version of the silicone (http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=p ... lpage=none) does not contain any bioseal.
I am not sure if they stopped manufacturing but it is readily available at my Home Depot and Lowers stores. I cannot seem to find it on the GE Sealants site.
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Postby bntbrl » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:58 am

Here are some excerpts and notes i found researching from a redesign I did on one of my tanks using the silcone II w bio seal. I had used it a lot before when it didnt have the bioseal label on it.

I understand claims that GE has not changed the recipe since the old tube that had no bio-seal label. The same withthe silicone I. Nothing new, just new labeling.

"brand is of the same quality and is what aquarium manufactures use in sealing there tanks. It is the 'Ethyl Triacetoxysilane as acetic Acid that gives it its adhesion and strength. the GE types (less odor) uses Methoxypolydimethylsiloxane and silicas. these GE caulks do have excellent adhesion but not what aquariums need for long term exposure underwater. and nobody wants a seam leak a few months or a few years down the line."

hazardous--- From the msds sheet
------------------
-------Polydimethylsiloxane (PDMS) is a commonly used silicon-based organic polymer. Due to its unique mechanical, chemical, and optical properties, it has become integrated into many microfluidic and optical devices.


-------------hexamethyldisilazane with the chemical formula [(CH3)2Si]2NH. The product is used to augment the adhesion of photoresist on silicon and SiO2 surfaces.


----------------Methyl trimethoxysilane --As a crosslinking agent for room temperature cured silicone rubber, coupling agent for glass fiber and SiO2, a strengthening treatment agent for plastic-layer pressing material

Thats both of them in the hazardous area. Neither are fungicide. They are basically ahesive promoters and strengthening agents.

---------------- Heres the big part I dont understand ------------------------------------------

Biocidal polymers active by contact. V. Synthesis of polysiloxanes with biocidal activity
G. Sauvet 1 *, S. Dupond 1, K. Kazmierski 2, J. Chojnowski 2
1Laboratoire de Recherches sur les Macromolecules (U.A. 502), Université Paris-XIII, avenue J.-B. Clement, 93430 Villetaneuse, France
2Centre of Molecular and Macromolecular Studies, Polish Academy of Sciences, Sienkiewicza 112, 90-363 Lódz, Poland


*Correspondence to G. Sauvet, Laboratoire de Recherches sur les Macromolecules (U.A. 502), Université Paris-XIII, avenue J.-B. Clement, 93430 Villetaneuse, France

Funded by:
French-Polish Scientific and Technological cooperation Joint Project; Grant Number: 6508
KBN; Grant Number: 3T09A 03015.

Keywords
functional polysiloxanes; quaternary ammonium salts; macromolecular biocide; antibacterial activity


Abstract
Polysiloxanes with 3-(alkyldimethylammonio)propyl pendant groups were synthesized by quaternization of n-octyldimethylamine or n-dodecyldimethylamine with linear polysiloxanes containing 3-chloropropyl groups and/or 3-bromopropyl groups attached to silicon atoms. The precursor polysiloxanes, poly[(3-chloropropyl)methylsiloxane] homopolymer and various copolymers containing (3-halogenopropyl)methylsiloxane and dimethylsiloxane units, were obtained by equilibrium cationic polymerization of linear and cyclic siloxanes with (3-halogenopropyl)methylsiloxane units. The polysiloxanes bearing quaternary ammonium salts (QAS) showed bactericidal activity against bacteria such as Escherichia coli and Aeromonas hydrophila when incorporated in a polysiloxane network. The activity was retained after 66 days of immersion in water. The QAS-containing polysiloxanes are also active in aqueous solution. © 2000 John Wiley & Sons, Inc. J Appl Polym Sci 75: 1005-1012, 2000

----------------------------

It doesnt say that it is a fungicide, it just says that it inhibits growth. How? The silicone has an additive that makes a strong film on teh surface. Does this keep the surface from getting accumulations by being harder and slicker? I cant find anything that says it has a fungicide or mildew killing agent. I am not a chemist though. And I am not all that smart when it comes to advanced chemical compounds. I have been told that GE has had the same formula since the old school GE Silcicone II adn I didnt have problems with that.

-------BIOSEAL From the GE website --------------

The potential health effects of mold are a growing concern being studied by organizations ranging from the Center for Disease Control (CDC) to the American Industrial Hygiene Association. To combat the growth of unsightly and risky mold, GE has developed BioSeal, a proprietary additive that inhibits mold growth on its sealants. BioSeal prevents mold growth that can lead to unpleasant odors, discoloration, and potential health risks.

According to the CDC, indoor mold can cause or worsen certain illnesses. Allergic reactions, similar to common pollen and irritation are the most common health effects for people with mold sensitivities. Molds may also exacerbate asthma, cause flu-like symptoms and skin rashes. Exposure to mold affects people in different ways. Fortunately, most symptoms are temporary and eliminated by addressing the mold problem. BioSeal gives you the chance to do that by preventing the mold and mildew growth that typically occurs on the sealant.

Mold growth is a considerable concern for both builders and homeowners. Products like GE Silicone II with BioSeal help rid your kitchen, bathroom, or your door and window frames of mold problems before they even have a chance to start.

------------------
It doesnt say that it kills anything. Its like it does this as a secondary purpose to what they were trying tod o to start wtih, and because the surface may have been hard to promote adhesion, after curing it kept mold from sticking because it was so smooth or hard. Not becaue it was a poison. I have researched and so far this is all I have found.


---------Email to Ge------------
Hello,

I understand the Bio-Seal is a mold inhibitor. The labels and info I have found do not say that it "kills" anything, or contains any poisons such as arsenic etc to kill the growth of bacteria and or mold/mildew. I would assume that this is a physical attribute of the silicone, especially the silicone II door and window. I am asking if there are any specific poisons or inhibitors taht "kill" bacteria and or mold/mildew. I read the msds sheet and the chemicals appear to be adhesive promoters and strengtheners, not fungicide and or poisons like arsenic or what have you. I need to know if there are any added poisons or if by its physical nature it inhibits the growth of mold or bacteria. Has it changed its formula since in obtained the bioseal logo from the older version taht did not contain the bio seal logo?

Thanks for your time,

--------------------------------------

Recap: Over all it appears that the silicone II cures with an ammonia base. The Sili I cures with the acetic base. Ammonia is bad in a tank. It must cure fully at least for a couple days, silicone II that is. GE says it sstill the same old stuff it has always been. The MSDS sheet doesnt show any apparent chemical additives (like the bathroom versions do). I dont know if I have any chemists in teh extended family but Im going to check and ask the wife too about that long worded part with all the poly and hexa and whatnot. It appears to me that it says no where "kills" anything. For that matter glass is mold resistant, as would be fish slime. Bleach however is a mold killer. Thats a big difference. My tank is a week old and the fish are alive and well. Some of my crypts are frayed at the edges from being in a bucket for 3 days but for everything being in a bucket for 3 days with no aeration or light its okay. I lost a couple neon tetras, they were already 6 months that I had them. I had put about 6 gallons of water back into the 29 gallon from teh original tank. The filter was also stopped for 3 days (canister HOT 350).

Illw ait and see what the Sil II door and window does but it appears that everything is okay. I used great stuff foam, covered it with silicone, let it cure 24 hours, and them brushed silicone on with coconut coir to texture the silicone. Looks good. There are some dead spaces inteh form of plant shelves, and a place to hide my co2 diffuser.

Surely this stuff applied thick cannot be fully cured in 24 hours and the ammonia leaching as a result of curing will kill your fish, or at least stress them I would imagine. Thats probably why some have had problems with it, but Im not the definitive say so.
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Postby Eb0la11 » Wed May 20, 2009 2:48 pm

Ok I got a simple question about GE silicone.

Somewhere along the line I've been buying GE silicone II instead of GE silicone I.

I think that I have read either work as long as its for windows and doors but that one of the two had a higher bonding rating or something. Now my questions are: can either work?

Also, can either work in SALTWATER application? Anyone have experience with either in salt water application?
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Postby Eb0la11 » Sat May 23, 2009 4:17 pm

Anyone?
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