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Converted hi-tech planted setup - 60 Gallon

Postby greenmonkey » Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:55 pm

Hi everyone, first post here...

We have just converted a very high tech planted tank to an african cichlid. A couple questions to follow the setup info below:

Tank: Cade 3ft x 2ft x 2ft - CB900
Substrate: Seachem Grey Coast
Decorations: Seiryu rock from the planted setup
Lighting: Ecotech Radion XR15FW
Filtration: Eheim 350Pro

Pics to follow

The lighting is probably overkill but will keep them running in case needed in future. My questions are:
1 - has anyone used Gray Coast before? Feedback? Seems full of rock dust and just wondering if that settles or if i need to vacuum the settled dust out now that its all set up?
2 - Lighting is probably overkill so have set it through the app to run low, are there ay specific lighting requirements recommended as the lights are fully adaptable?
3 - The filter is very mature and running with standard eheim filter media, should we be doing anything else for african cichlids in terms of media?

The LFS sold us 4 young Lamprologus Brichardi to keep the tank cycled until we decides what else to put in, but in doing more reasearch this morning we ave found they are called the "Death Squad" - if we want to run a Lake Tanganyika type tank (we know the setup isn't a biotope), should we swap them out for something less....well..... deathly? Or are we ok to get another 4 of them and other fish?

any help appreciated.
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Re: Converted hi-tech planted setup - 60 Gallon

Postby DJRansome » Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:34 pm

You could let them fill the tank and keep them as a single species tank. Or you could remove them and replace with Tangs appropriate to a 36" tank. Maybe something like this:
Six Lamprologus multifasciatus
Six Paracyprichromis nigripinnis
Julidochromis marlieri Gombe or Altolamprologus calvus (buy six and end up with a pair).
125G Borleyi, Maleri, Astatotilapia, Multipunctata
75G Demasoni, Maingano, Msobo, Lucipinnis
75G Calvus, Caudopunctatus, Petricola
55G Chrysonotus, Labs; 38G Turkis
33G Hara; 33G Kwanga; 33G Tetrastigma; 33G Cobue
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Re: Converted hi-tech planted setup - 60 Gallon

Postby greenmonkey » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:58 am

thanks for that! We ended up in one of our better LFS and the owner/long time african cichlid keeper gave us loads of advice and yes, we will have to eventually return the L. Brichardi. He has talked us into a mix of Tanganyika and Malawi cichlids for variety and colour... will update with what we get. have put your suggestions on a list. am in love with the Paracyprichromis nigripinnis after searching it, however it seems they are near on impossible to get in Australia. Always the way... :)

As a sidenote, he has suggested a pair of Hongi, a few electric yellows and neolamprologus leleupi to start with.
---

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Re: Converted hi-tech planted setup - 60 Gallon

Postby Fogelhund » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:45 am

greenmonkey wrote:
As a sidenote, he has suggested a pair of Hongi, a few electric yellows and neolamprologus leleupi to start with.


Mixing substrate spawners (leleupi) and all but the most passive mouthbrooders (hongi and electric yellow), is rarely a good long-term recipe. If you are going with with Tangs, stick with Tangs. You aren't going to get the colour of the Malawians, but the behaviour is far more interesting.

If you want to go Malawi.. maybe electric yellows and demasoni, if you can get them. Hongi are going to be hit and miss in a 3ft tank... with enough stocking it could work. Some will make points about two types of Labidochromis together, making it a greater risk for hybridization, but chances are with enough you would be fine. I'd start with eight to ten of each, weed it down to the nicest male and whatever females.

Also note, no Malawian mouthbrooders are pairing fish, so the advice to keep a "pair" of hongi, suggests this isn't the place to get advice. Malawian mouthbrooders are harem breeders, you want multiple females to spread the aggression best.
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Re: Converted hi-tech planted setup - 60 Gallon

Postby DJRansome » Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:15 pm

Fogelhund wrote:
greenmonkey wrote:
As a sidenote, he has suggested a pair of Hongi, a few electric yellows and neolamprologus leleupi to start with.


Mixing substrate spawners (leleupi) and all but the most passive mouthbrooders (hongi and electric yellow), is rarely a good long-term recipe. If you are going with with Tangs, stick with Tangs. You aren't going to get the colour of the Malawians, but the behaviour is far more interesting.

If you want to go Malawi.. maybe electric yellows and demasoni, if you can get them. Hongi are going to be hit and miss in a 3ft tank... with enough stocking it could work. Some will make points about two types of Labidochromis together, making it a greater risk for hybridization, but chances are with enough you would be fine. I'd start with eight to ten of each, weed it down to the nicest male and whatever females.

Also note, no Malawian mouthbrooders are pairing fish, so the advice to keep a "pair" of hongi, suggests this isn't the place to get advice. Malawian mouthbrooders are harem breeders, you want multiple females to spread the aggression best.

Plus one. Or for Malawi a species tank with Pseudotropheus saulosi would be nice.
125G Borleyi, Maleri, Astatotilapia, Multipunctata
75G Demasoni, Maingano, Msobo, Lucipinnis
75G Calvus, Caudopunctatus, Petricola
55G Chrysonotus, Labs; 38G Turkis
33G Hara; 33G Kwanga; 33G Tetrastigma; 33G Cobue
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Re: Converted hi-tech planted setup - 60 Gallon

Postby greenmonkey » Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:55 am

Fogelhund wrote:
Mixing substrate spawners (leleupi) and all but the most passive mouthbrooders (hongi and electric yellow), is rarely a good long-term recipe. If you are going with with Tangs, stick with Tangs. You aren't going to get the colour of the Malawians, but the behaviour is far more interesting.

If you want to go Malawi.. maybe electric yellows and demasoni, if you can get them. Hongi are going to be hit and miss in a 3ft tank... with enough stocking it could work. Some will make points about two types of Labidochromis together, making it a greater risk for hybridization, but chances are with enough you would be fine. I'd start with eight to ten of each, weed it down to the nicest male and whatever females.

Also note, no Malawian mouthbrooders are pairing fish, so the advice to keep a "pair" of hongi, suggests this isn't the place to get advice. Malawian mouthbrooders are harem breeders, you want multiple females to spread the aggression best.


ok, we went with eight of the electric yellows and will need to go back for more hongi. Have a brilliant male and one female, so more females might be the go with that.

Also noted for the leleupi and mixing with the mouthbrooders. We did walk away with them so they are in there now and seem to be doing ok.

The guy giving us advice is a 30 year african cichlid keeper, so the advice is trusted from that aspect. However, he does own a businesss that accepts returns at 1/3 the purchase price.....so as a cynic, that needs to be taken into account as well. He was a wealth of info however and has said we need at least double the fish count to be able to house his suggestions successfully.

So potentially, more hongi females and then one other species.... or should we stop while we're ahead and return the hongis? they're GORGEOUS though!! Also

DJRansome - love the suggestion.
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Re: Converted hi-tech planted setup - 60 Gallon

Postby DJRansome » Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:36 am

If you are locked the tank and the leleupi and the labs I would not add fish. This is a 36" tank. I'd return the hongi.

For 3 species of Malawi you would want a 48" tank (depending on the species).

How does the business owner explain recommending a pair of fish when the species is a harem breeder?

The people advising you (not me but others) have that much experience and more...and are not selling you anything.
125G Borleyi, Maleri, Astatotilapia, Multipunctata
75G Demasoni, Maingano, Msobo, Lucipinnis
75G Calvus, Caudopunctatus, Petricola
55G Chrysonotus, Labs; 38G Turkis
33G Hara; 33G Kwanga; 33G Tetrastigma; 33G Cobue
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Re: Converted hi-tech planted setup - 60 Gallon

Postby greenmonkey » Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:27 pm

ok noted, the sad thing is the Hongi are the favourites. :) But if they are not compatible then return them, we should. We'll leave them a few more days and then revisit the stock next week in the new year. Npte that the tank itself is only 3 ft long but it is 2 ft wide. Does that make up for the fact its not a 4 ft?

Some pics of the fish including the cave the male Hongi has basically claimed. Seems to be happy to leave all alone. He is not aggressing the female too much and he is spreading the aggression among the electric yellow females as well. This was the advice of the LFS owner....he would spread his attention to the female electric yellows, but this comes back to the problem of hybridisation if he mates with one of them.

Image
Image
Image
Image

Still alot more rocks to buy to build up the rock wall and add more caves.

Also, a shot of the tanks previous life and its german blues
Image
Image
---

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Re: Converted hi-tech planted setup - 60 Gallon

Postby DJRansome » Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:54 pm

The depth helps but it does not make up for the length. Usually I would say one species but since you already have two and have the depth...

You likely want a lot more rock for the mbuna.
125G Borleyi, Maleri, Astatotilapia, Multipunctata
75G Demasoni, Maingano, Msobo, Lucipinnis
75G Calvus, Caudopunctatus, Petricola
55G Chrysonotus, Labs; 38G Turkis
33G Hara; 33G Kwanga; 33G Tetrastigma; 33G Cobue
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Re: Converted hi-tech planted setup - 60 Gallon

Postby greenmonkey » Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:53 pm

DJRansome wrote:The depth helps but it does not make up for the length. Usually I would say one species but since you already have two and have the depth...

You likely want a lot more rock for the mbuna.


well noted, rocks are on order and will build up to just over half the tank!! If the general consensus is to get rid of the hongi, then we will.... and find something esle with the blues to complement that is compatible
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Re: Converted hi-tech planted setup - 60 Gallon

Postby DJRansome » Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:34 pm

You are fully stocked for a 36" tank. To add fish you would have to remove something.
125G Borleyi, Maleri, Astatotilapia, Multipunctata
75G Demasoni, Maingano, Msobo, Lucipinnis
75G Calvus, Caudopunctatus, Petricola
55G Chrysonotus, Labs; 38G Turkis
33G Hara; 33G Kwanga; 33G Tetrastigma; 33G Cobue
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Re: Converted hi-tech planted setup - 60 Gallon

Postby greenmonkey » Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:06 pm

[quote="DJRansome"]You are fully stocked for a 36" tank. To add fish you would have to remove something.[/quotassuming you're including the full size of the hongi in that statement. If removing the hongi and aiming for more compatible and smaller fish, looking at blues and blacks, what do you suggest?
---

Mike
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Re: Converted hi-tech planted setup - 60 Gallon

Postby greenmonkey » Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:12 pm

Thoughts on replacing the hongi with a couple of Altolamprologus compressiceps?
---

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Re: Converted hi-tech planted setup - 60 Gallon

Postby DJRansome » Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:13 pm

Possibly if you remove the yellow labs. Two rock dwellers (leleupi and calvus) might be unhappy sharing a 36" tank.
125G Borleyi, Maleri, Astatotilapia, Multipunctata
75G Demasoni, Maingano, Msobo, Lucipinnis
75G Calvus, Caudopunctatus, Petricola
55G Chrysonotus, Labs; 38G Turkis
33G Hara; 33G Kwanga; 33G Tetrastigma; 33G Cobue
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Re: Converted hi-tech planted setup - 60 Gallon

Postby Fogelhund » Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:25 pm

You could make a leleupi and comp work in a 36" tank... but the rockwork would need substantial reworking.
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