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N. pulcher behavior

1K views 7 replies 4 participants last post by  Samadhikash 
#1 ·
Greetings. I'm a new owner of seven N. pulcher. They range in size between 1" and about 2.25" and are even in numbers grouped by smaller (2), medium (3), bigger (2). The parents are identical for all, but as I understand they are not from the same spawn. I put them in a 55g with lots of rock (side to side, roughly pyramidal, 2/3 bottom to top) with a larger grained sand substrate. The wall of rock forms a loose arc, two front corners to back of tank, with open space in the front center and two back corners. Knowing there are few absolute rules, I'd like some input....

1) Since they are all "kin" of varying sizes, is there any chance a dominant pair will form and allow the rest to remain as subservient cohabitants? Or is helter skelter inevitable? I read somewhere that familials can form a peaceful hierarchy, but I've lost the reference.

2) With seven N. pulcher in a 55g and lots of rock, what are the odds that two pair would establish themselves? Even if they did, would that be desirable? To put it another way, if the first pair "took over" the 55g, and I moved the remaining fish to another (hypothetical) 55g, what would be the benefit - if any - of allowing a second colony to form from the five that were kicked out by the dominant pair of the seven? Thinking here about vigor, longevity, fecundity, etc.

I've read everything I could find from the last year on this thread and I'm still curious about how other people feel about these questions. Any and all feedback welcome.
 
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#2 ·
Usually a single pair will form and go on a foray to eliminate the competition. When you see a pair formed, you will first know most times from the other fish hiding in the top corners of the tank, in dire stress. Only one time in years of keeping these fish, did it vary from that for me. I had one group of six that grew up and began spawning together. I didn't see any stressed individuals, and when i finally saw all six of them spawning together I was totally surprised. They did not pass this trait on to their offspring.

If you can rescue some of the fish from the pair tank, they might form a second pair in another tank. You would have twice as many fry, more or less, with two tanks. There will be a cloud of different spawns in the tank with the larger older fry staying farther from the parents. Remove these well before puberty.
 
#3 ·
Mcdaphnia said:
Usually a single pair will form and go on a foray to eliminate the competition. When you see a pair formed, you will first know most times from the other fish hiding in the top corners of the tank, in dire stress. Only one time in years of keeping these fish, did it vary from that for me. I had one group of six that grew up and began spawning together. I didn't see any stressed individuals, and when i finally saw all six of them spawning together I was totally surprised. They did not pass this trait on to their offspring.
Thanks for sharing this. That makes only the second time I've heard of it happening that way. I am ready to remove fish when the mayhem starts. Makes me very curious though about why certain fish in certain conditions seem to be able to establish a hierarchy without killing everybody else in the tank. Fascinating little fish.
 
#4 ·
Mcdaphnia said:
There will be a cloud of different spawns in the tank with the larger older fry staying farther from the parents. Remove these well before puberty.
Do the mature offsprings from the same parents fight to the death, too?
 
#5 ·
My expectation is that you would end up with two pairs in a 55 gallon at first... and then eventually one. They are a very social species, but typically, the helpers and those allowed to remain in the colony are their own fry, not siblings, or those raised at the same time. There are exceptions of course, and it isn't uncommon that a junior, often much smaller female of the same age stays within the colony as well. It is also quite normal that once young males get to a certain age, that they are kicked out as well. I have seen extreme situations where there have been multiple pairs in such a tank though, but it isn't all that common. Typically this has been in more sparsely decorated tanks.

Mature offspring are eventually turfed from the territory... maybe a helper or two allowed, but not large numbers.
 
#6 ·
Fogelhund said:
Mature offspring are eventually turfed from the territory... maybe a helper or two allowed, but not large numbers.
Is definition of the territory here the whole 55G tank, or just area near the spawning cave?
 
#7 ·
Als49 said:
Fogelhund said:
Mature offspring are eventually turfed from the territory... maybe a helper or two allowed, but not large numbers.
Is definition of the territory here the whole 55G tank, or just area near the spawning cave?
In a 125 gallon tank, it meant the whole tank in my usual experience with these fish. The exceptions happen, but rarely. I never put them in my 520 gallon, but I did have Julidochromis in that tank at times. They have similar breeding strategies, allowing older fry to co-exist with the newest ones. I did have a spawning reverse trio of julies in that tank one time, but never more than one spawning group.
 
#8 ·
Fogelhund said:
I have seen extreme situations where there have been multiple pairs in such a tank though, but it isn't all that common. Typically this has been in more sparsely decorated tanks.
I've been thinking about this. So, for example, my tank has one big continuous pile of rock. I wouldn't call it sparse. I could see a pair deciding they want the whole pile and not being content to have just one side of it while allowing another pair take the other side. When you say sparse, I'm thinking clearly defined, small, discrete areas--like a flower pot at each end of the tank, or two small piles of rock. In this way I guess the fish would have a chance to decide they need only one pot at one end, and another pair could settle on the opposite side. Is my reasoning from what you've said making any sense?
 
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