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CA with Africans

5K views 41 replies 9 participants last post by  oldcatfish 
#1 ·
I recently have had several requests for information regarding successfully mixing African cichlids with Central Americans. Rather than responding privately, I'll just post my method so everyone can see.

There are several ways that you can set up a succesful tank. I'll describe the two easiest scenarios for you, and you can choose which way you want to go with.

Scenario one...this looks better, but works the bestr if you can get a harem ( 1 male to 4+ females--up to 7 or 8 mbuna) of a single mild tempered, Malawi species. Labidochromis Caeruleus ( Electric Yellow Lab) or Pseudotropheus Acei are ideal for this. What you do, is put a large pile of rockwork (with lots of caves) on one end of the tank...you can use sections of PVC pipe hidden behind/under the rocks to make the caves. You then put a large piece of driftwood at the other end of the tank, with an open space of at least a foot in between. The mbuna will claim the rocks, and the CA will quickly learn that he'll be out-maneuvered over them...so he'll claim the driftwood area. The open space is important, so if in doubt, go larger than a foot. Don't be afraid to pile the rocks up as high as you want, as long as it's stable. Look at the pictures of Malawi tanks on you-tube and the profiles, and recreate that look in about 1/3 of the tank. This technique almost always works, if done correctly (I've actually never had it fail, and I've set up dozens of tanks this way).

Scenario two... this doesn't look as good, but works very well too. In this case, just spread a few caves (I try to put one for each mbuna, plus a couple more) throughout the tank. Don't pile any rock work up, you just one open space with caves spread about. Then select a few milder tempered mbuna of any species/sex. They will spread throughout the aquarium. The CA will be dominant and will keep the mbuna from fighting too much, but he won't be able to keep them all in their caves. He'll try at first, but will get tired of chasing the fast moving mbuna. The lack of rock work allows the CA to keep the upper hand. This scenario is a little trickier because you do need to avoid the most aggressive species of mbuna (they will eventually challenge your CA, and a 55g just isn't enough room for them anyway)...so do some research to know what to look for. In general, most mbuna with ANY body stripes (horizontal or vertical) may be too aggressive. Fish with a solid body color will be more likely to work out. Don't worry about the fin color, just the body stripes. Also, don't put more than 3 or 4 mbuna in the tank.

These are just two methods that work.
 
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#2 ·
Thanks for the info. So if i want a couple diff. Mbuna i need to go with the second? Or will the first work out? I have right now a big rock with random holes in to. Prolly 1.5' long and 1' tall. In the center of tank. Then one corner has a 4" pvc elbow behind a fake root/wood looking deal. Then the other corner has a tree truck shaped save.. with sand substrate
 
#3 ·
Each male mbuna will claim a rock/cave. And the females of the more aggressive ones will too.

So, to have more than one species you would likely need to go more like the second method. But your current setup might work just fine...a lot of it depends on what Malawi species you choose. Can you post a picture of your current setup? If I can see it, I can give more specific suggestions?
 
#5 ·
I would not do it because they require two different types of water. Putting them together will not cause death but I think there is better ways to raising them.
 
#6 ·
Quote "I would not do it because they require two different types of water. Putting them together will not cause death but I think there is better ways to raising them."

--Actually, the water conditions preferred by Malawi cichlids and Central American cichlids are very similar. The conditions preferred by CA's and many other fish that are commonly kept with them are much farther apart. For example, CA cichlids (which prefer, hard & alkaline water just like Malawi's) are often kept with Plecos, Silver Dollars, Synodontus catfish, or Giant Danios. All of those fish (except for a few of the dozens of Synodontus species) prefer neutral or acid water conditions.
 
#9 ·
im sorry but i rather suggest people to stock properly. while this idea can work anyone who is asking for stocking help are likely begginer and this idea isnt something a begginer should attempt.
 
#11 ·
Quote "im sorry but i rather suggest people to stock properly. while this idea can work anyone who is asking for stocking help are likely begginer and this idea isnt something a begginer should attempt."

---Unless you are trying to setup a biotope, then there is no "proper" stocking. Only a healthy and compatible setup. And if the aquarium has the proper decor and mild tempered Malawi cichlids are chosen, a beginner is going to have less aggression than with an aquarium stocked with only CA cichlids.

To spankym13, I'd probably rearrange the aquarium a little for better results. I'd move the big rock to one end, and have the larger driftwood piece at the other end. Put the PVC pipe in the middle, but closer to the big rock. Put some of the plants between the smaller driftwood and big rock to hide the pvc and create a line-of-sight break between the rock. Leave an open space between the two driftwood pieces. In reality though, if you don't add aggressive mbuna species, and only add a few, your current setup will probably be fine. You can always redecorate later. In fact, depending on your JD, you may need to add a couple of more pieces of PVC for the mbuna.
 
#14 ·
oldcatfish said:
Quote "im sorry but i rather suggest people to stock properly. while this idea can work anyone who is asking for stocking help are likely begginer and this idea isnt something a begginer should attempt."

---Unless you are trying to setup a biotope, then there is no "proper" stocking. Only a healthy and compatible setup. And if the aquarium has the proper decor and mild tempered Malawi cichlids are chosen, a beginner is going to have less aggression than with an aquarium stocked with only CA cichlids.

To spankym13, I'd probably rearrange the aquarium a little for better results. I'd move the big rock to one end, and have the larger driftwood piece at the other end. Put the PVC pipe in the middle, but closer to the big rock. Put some of the plants between the smaller driftwood and big rock to hide the pvc and create a line-of-sight break between the rock. Leave an open space between the two driftwood pieces. In reality though, if you don't add aggressive mbuna species, and only add a few, your current setup will probably be fine. You can always redecorate later. In fact, depending on your JD, you may need to add a couple of more pieces of PVC for the mbuna.
any begginer should stick to the basic and this is anything but a basic concept.
 
#18 ·
I got this from the species profiles at this website:

JD:

PH: 7-8
Diet: Omnivore
Temp: 76-80

Yellow Lab:

PH: 7.8-8.6
Diet: Omnivore
Temp: 78-82

The only thing I would be concerned about is the JD beating up on the Yellow Labs. If you can manage that aggression issue I think Yellow Labs plus a Jack Dempsey would be a super sweet looking tank. Ignore the people who whine about mixing CA and African cichlids.
 
#19 ·
Quote "Oldcat: Thank you so much for the advice, ill see what i can do with the aquascape.... Right now im checking out the LFS to see whats out there that is big enough right now it wont become food, i see alot of peacock,zebra,aceia,jewels,kenyi,bumblebee."

---Stay away from the Kenyi and Bumblebee. They are both very aggressive Malawi species. I'd personally stay away from the Jewels too, but just because your JD will probably see them as mini-Jack Dempseys....otherwise they are compatible. Acei are perfect and depending on the species --the Peacock genus (Aulonocara) will work fine too. The OB morphs are hybrids between Aulonocara and OB Zebras, so they tend to be more aggressive than pure Aulonocara, but will usually work. The Zebras can work too, especially if you find females. Look for the red/bright orange ones with black blotches if you can find them (M. Estherae); they tend to have high ratios of female to male, so you are more likely to find females. The females(which are a deeper/brighter orange) are less territorial than males, but even a male isn't likely to challenge a larger JD. At least not out in the open.

If it were me, I'd probably choose the Acei and/or peacocks.

And your tank looks more like what I had in mind, since you re-decorated. It should work just fine, though depending on what species you choose, you may need to remove some of the plants. You probably won't need to though.

-----------Quote "Sounds like an interesting concept, however I housed a kenyi with a pair of breeding convicts, and the kenyi beat them both up."

I'm surprised that it took on a breeding pair, but not that it would challenge a convict individually. Kenyi's are one of the more aggressive mbuna available, and aren't suitable for a 55 gallon....even with other aggressive mbuna.

It still amazes me that so many aquarists think that you can't mix New World and Old World cichlids...and that comes from both sides. I used to think that too--until I tried it. I have a lot of experience with keeping and breeding African cichlids. Keeping CA's (or almost any other substrate spawning cichlid) with mbuna isn't that much different than keeping Haplochromines with them. You just have to take into account their natural habitats. Mbuna live very closely with rocks. In nature, they don't stray far from them, so if you leave some open space, your CA won't have to out maneuver them...and most mbuna have little desire to start a fight with a large powerful fish out in the open water. If you load the tank with rocks and mbuna, then they will have the upper hand. That's where most people go wrong. That, and choosing very aggressive mbuna for smaller tanks. I'll say it again...if done correctly, mixing CA's with Malawi cichlids usually results in less aggression than mixing CA's with each other. Of course nothing is 100%, because fish have individual personalities...but more often than not, they make very good tankmates.
 
#21 ·
"Quote" Oldcatfish, i cant thank u enough for your time.... Ill look at the acei in stock, and see about the peacocks. How many would u add at once?? And could i mix 1-2 of ea?

--I wouldn't add any more than 3 or 4 fish, and you are better off adding all at once. Your JD will probably be very aggressive toward them for about a week or two, but then will mellow a bit. Just give each fish that you add a place to hide from your JD. You can mix the Acei with the peacocks....how many of each just depends on exactly what you get. If the peacocks available are OB or A. Jacobfriebergi, they'll be much more aggressive toward each other than toward the Acei. Your best mix is probably 1 peacock along with 3 Acei.
 
#24 ·
Quote "Ok, yea the ob morph seem to be popular, if i dont get that. There a lota zebra also so would those mix with acei? And should i be tryn to sex them?"

--There are OB morphs of a lot of mbuna species...even some Haps from Lake Victoria. The OB Zebra morph that I'm talking about is of M. Estherae, the "red zebra." Those will be very bright orange with black blotches....they kind of look like Red Devils from CA to someone unfamiliar with them. The other OB morph that would be ok is the OB peacock...of which there are a variety of colors.

With any Malawi cichlid, females will be less territorial/aggressive than males of the same species, so if you know how to sex them that would be great. All of either sex would make for a more peaceful tank, but even with a mix...your JD should keep things from getting out of hand. Just don't load the tank with Malawis, otherwise the JD will be overwhelmed by the number of them. Again, I wouldn't add more than about 4 fish. And don't save any hybrid fry if they breed...just leave them in the tank. The JD will eat most, but you may have an occasional one make it.

As to the small group of Demasoni....absolutely not. They are extremely aggressive toward each other, and are hard to keep in any group less than about 15....and even that, can be difficult. The good news is that they don't usually bother other species too much, so you could get one to mix with the other species.
 
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